Murder and Mimosas Podcast
A true crime podcast with a focus on lesser known crimes and the background of those who commit these heinous acts. Each case is told with a bit of southern sass, but with tons of in depth research and respect for those lost. Join this mom and daughter duo as they sip their mimosas while diving into tragic cases. New episodes every Saturday, just in time for brunch (and a mimosa of your own)!
Murder and Mimosas Podcast
A Daughter's Betrayal and a Father's Forgiveness: Caffey Family
What drives a young girl from a conservative Christian upbringing to become embroiled in a harrowing murder plot against her own family? This chilling episode uncovers the shocking transformation of Erin Caffey, who sought freedom from her sheltered life only to find herself entangled in a sinister scheme with her boyfriend, Charlie, and his friends. As we unravel the layers of this tragic story, we confront the heartbreaking consequences of Erin's desperate quest for independence and the devastating toll it took on the Caffey family.
The aftermath of the brutal attack reveals a community in shock and disbelief, grappling with the horrific loss of a family they once knew. Officer Charles Dickerson's discovery of Terry Caffey, clinging to life amidst the ruins, sets the stage for an investigation that uncovers disturbing truths. We examine the intricate details of the murder plot and the chilling events that transpired, raising haunting questions about Erin's role and the depths of betrayal that shattered her family forever.
Yet, amidst the horror and grief, there shines a remarkable story of forgiveness and resilience. Terry Caffey, the sole survivor of the attack, embarks on a journey of healing that defies the unimaginable. His path to forgiving Erin and others involved offers a compelling glimpse into the power of faith and forgiveness in the face of unspeakable tragedy. Join us as we explore these powerful themes and invite you to reflect on the complexities of trauma and recovery. Engage with us on social media under the handle Murder and Mimosas, and share your thoughts or suggest other true crime stories for future episodes.
Sources:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/shooting-arson-survivor-family-slain-forgives-daughter-killers/story?id=16654379
https://www.theforgivenessproject.com/stories-library/terry-caffey/
https://www.kltv.com/story/8132265/dad-wants-daughter-in-triple-murder-to-go-home/
https://www.texasmonthly.com/articles/flesh-and-blood/
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Dark Cast Network. Welcome to the dark side of podcasting. Welcome to Murder and Mimosas a true crime podcast brought to you by a mother and daughter duo.
Speaker 3:Bringing you murder stories with a mimosa in hand.
Speaker 2:Murder Mimosas is a true crime podcast, meaning we talk about adult matters such as murder, sexual assaults and other horrendous crimes. Listener, discretion is advised. We do tell our stories with the victims and the victims' families in mind. However, some information is more verifiable than others. However, you can find all of our information linked in the show notes. Welcome back to Murder and Mimosas. I'm Danica and I'm Shannon. Shannon, as a mom, you know that we want to keep our children safe, but there is also a limit where we don't want to keep them so safe that they, like never experience anything in life. That can definitely go too far.
Speaker 1:Yeah right, I mean, as a parent, finding the balance of keeping your child safe but also allowing them the ability to make mistakes and learn from them, is really a tough one.
Speaker 2:So today's case has a lot to do with that and we're going to start out with Erin Caffey, who was born into a very conservative Christian family on July 27th of 1991. Both her parents were ministers at the local Baptist church and they raised Erin and her two younger brothers in a very old-fashioned Christian way with those very old-fashioned values. The children did gain some social skills going to the local public school there in Texas until Erin was in the eighth grade, that is.
Speaker 1:So what happened in the eighth grade? Or did her family just decide that that was the age to take her out of school?
Speaker 2:Well, apparently a female classmate had made an attempt to kiss Aaron at school and, as you can imagine, this did not sit well with Aaron's very conservative parents, who held a deep belief that relationships were only between men and women.
Speaker 2:So only a month into Erin's eighth grade year, her parents had pulled not only her out of school but also her two brothers out of school, and from there their mother, penny, began to homeschool the three of them. Of course, as you can imagine, the homeschool curriculum that Penny used was based heavily within the Bible in an attempt to fight the devil that they felt was homosexuality, as they had a belief that this so-called devil had tried to corrupt their daughter and their family as a whole. This meant that, just as Erin is really like finding out who she is and you know her likes, her dislikes, where she fits in socially, her life quickly becomes just home and church, which her parents are ministers of, so becomes very small. Her world kind of just caves in all around her. Eventually erin is able to convince her parents to let her get a part-time job at the local sonic and quickly her co-workers notice how naive and really sheltered Erin is compared to the rest of them.
Speaker 1:I mean, I can only imagine, when she's never really away from her parents, that she would be sheltered for sure. I mean, a job's a great way for her to meet other people around her age.
Speaker 2:Well, erin did meet some people around her age, including a senior named Charlie, who she began a relationship with, and only a few months in, charlie even gave Aaron his grandmother's engagement ring as a promise ring of sorts.
Speaker 1:Oh my. So how do her parents feel about this? Is it a boy? That seems too young.
Speaker 2:Well, while this is a boy, which is better than the girl that tried to kiss her at school, the parents weren't a big fan. Even before this semi-proposal happened, they had very strong restrictions in place on the relationship between aaron and Charlie, like only being allowed to see each other once a week, while under their supervision at the Cathy home. Of course, like any teenage girl, erin rebelled against her parents' strict rules, which then, in turn, led to even stricter rules and restrictions. This, of course, led to a lot of tension between Erin and her parents.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean to be honest. Anyone who has a teenage girl has likely dealt with something similar. Like I said before, finding the balance between keeping them safe and giving them freedom is really a tough one, true.
Speaker 2:Erin and Charlie, though they're over her parents controlling everything they do their relationship. They just want to, you know, have more freedom. So Charlie begged Erin to just run away with him, but the plan that would actually come to fruition would end up being much more sinister. Erin and Charlie would spend weeks planning the murder of her parents. Charlie would even recruit the help of two of his friends, charles Wade and Charlie's girlfriend, bobby Johnson.
Speaker 1:It is crazy that these two are willing to agree to murdering people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, ride or die friends. Step aside, because these are apparently ride or kill friends. However, charlie did agree to pay the couple $2,000 for their help in the murders.
Speaker 1:He only works at Sonic, right? I mean, has he been saving up for this? I mean, $2,000 is quite a bit of money for a part-time fast food worker.
Speaker 2:So I'm not even really sure what Charlie's job is. While he did meet Aaron there, he met her there as a customer, but he definitely doesn't have the $2,000. He does have a plan, though, to steal the money from Aaron's home during the murder, since obviously her parents won't need the money after they've been killed, so he would just use that money to pay off the $2,000 he promised.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, we know a bit about Aaron. What do we know about Charlie, charles and Bobby? Are they violent people?
Speaker 2:Well, let's start with Aaron's new boyfriend, charlie. He's a regular country boy from Texas, often sporting Wranglers, black cowboy boots and a cowboy hat, even using the screen name Hillbilly on his MySpace page. He drove a 1991 Ford Explorer and it was a bit rough, usually needing a bit of help to start. Sometimes you'd have to push it a bit to get there. Charlie was in the Texas National Guard, an avid hunter, just an all-around country boy. His dad worked at the paper mill while his mother had moved out of state after his parents had divorced and Charlie would only see her like a few times a year. At home he had his dad, his stepmom, two step siblings and a half sibling, and while he didn't have like a huge disciplinary file at school or any marks against him, he was often referred to as a bit of a hothead and a bit of a smart mouth.
Speaker 1:So it seems like he was a decent kid with a plan for his future. So why agree to kill Aaron's parents?
Speaker 2:Well, charlie wasn't as set on the idea of murder as his girlfriend Aaron, but he was head over heels for her. He tried to convince Aaron over and over to just run away with him, and even tried to talk her into letting him get her pregnant. So her parents would have no choice but to accept them as a couple. Erin shot down the idea, though, saying she's too young to be a mom.
Speaker 1:Too young to be a parent, but not too young to be a murderer.
Speaker 2:I never said that that made sense, just saying that was Aaron's rebuttal.
Speaker 1:Okay, remind me again how Aaron is at this time 16.
Speaker 2:16, okay, yes, so, eventually, charlie agreed to Aaron's plan because he's wrapped around her finger Okay. What about the other two, though? He's wrapped around her finger Okay. What about the other two though? Well, charles Wade was 20 at the time that he was convicted of I'm sorry, convinced to do the murders Also when he was convicted, but we'll get there in a little bit. He was actually recently divorced, and when he left the marriage, he of course left behind his ex-wife, but also a young daughter, and it wasn't too long after that ink was dry on the divorce papers that he had started dating Bobby. Bobby Johnson was 18, a really good student. Everyone had great things to say about her. She was really into her school theater you know a part of the school and it's hard to know why she agreed to this, as $2,000 isn't really even a lot of money, even in 2008.
Speaker 1:Especially for committing a crime that could lead to death row in Texas. And well, since you're talking about this case, I'm assuming they went through with the crime to kill her parents. In a world where anything can happen, being prepared with critical information can make all the difference. That is why we've partnered with Help you Find Me, which is a platform where you can securely share your private information with loved ones they have so many different features, such as the live location, travel itinerary, medical information and more, All important to have, especially if you go missing.
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Speaker 2:But before we jump into that night, let's start. Three days before the murders, february 28, 2008. So penny sister, which would be aaron's aunt, told penny that she should have a look at charlie's my page, myspace page. Well, I really struggled with that, and so Penny went to the local library and pulled it up and she saw posts on his page about sex and getting drunk which, as you can imagine, for this very conservative Christian family, was not acceptable, especially in a very public platform. So that afternoon Erin's parents sit her down on the couch and demand that she break up with Charlie immediately.
Speaker 1:I'm sure that did not go well. So how did Erin react?
Speaker 2:Much to her parents' surprise, she didn't argue. She claimed through tears that she had wanted to break up with him for a while, but she just didn't know how. But she agreed to break up with Charlie immediately. Now let's fast forward to the morning after the murders, as a fire is still smoldering in the Cathy trailer Around 4.30 am a call from a neighbor comes into the sheriff's office claiming there's been a shooting at the Caffey home. Officer Charles Dickerson was the only one on duty, so he headed out toward the home and he saw an orange glow. As he pulled up, it was very clear that the home had been burning for quite some time, as the metal roof had begun to concave into the trailer itself.
Speaker 1:So they burned the house down too.
Speaker 2:They did. Dickerson had contacted fire as soon as he was pulling into the driveway to come and assist, because this investigation can't go far if their flames are still going on. As Dickerson entered the home through the front door, he saw a grisly scene. Sprawled on the living room floor was Aaron's dad, terry, with multiple gunshot wounds. Where had he been shot? He actually had five gunshot wounds one to the head, twice near his shoulder and twice more in his back. Miraculously, terry was still alive. As they loaded him on the gurney into the ambulance he was aware enough to be able to say quote they're all gone. Chili, charlie wilkerson shot my family. End.
Speaker 1:Quote oh my gosh, I'm so shocked that he's still living yes, it's insane that he was able to survive.
Speaker 2:But now the police are hot on the trail of aaron's boyfriend. They headed down to a run-down single-wide trailer where Charlie was and this is a very small town, because the reason they knew Charlie was there was because, as more police were coming to the home to, you know, assist in the investigation, one of them saw Charlie's truck parked at this trailer Right, and so when they were like, oh it's Charlie, well, we know where Charlie's truck is, like let's go there. Like that's the most small town stuff I've ever heard in my life, yeah.
Speaker 2:So they go to this trailer and they're let in by some teenage boy who's there, and Officer Fisher walked through this very messy home. There's piles of clothes everywhere. I mean it is just a mess. And on one of the door frames is like a blanket tacked up instead of a door and he pulls the blanket back in the room. He sees Charlie's just chilling on this mattress. It's sitting in the bedroom floor. He does have a gun beside him. He does not try to get it. He is arrested without incident and he is only wearing like his jeans. He has no shirt and stuff on.
Speaker 2:So they put charlie in the patrol car and then officer Fisher goes back in to the trailer to get some clothes for Charlie to wear and notices as he's carrying him out like there's blood splattered on the clothes. He of course assumes it's likely from the Caffey family, since he knows that Terry Caffey has already named Charlie as a killer. While all that's happening, firefighters are still at the Caffey has already named Charlie as killer. While all that's happening, firefighters are still at the Caffey home and they spend hours and hours putting the fire out. It takes them a really long time to get it to finally burn out when they are finished putting out the fire, they end up finding the bodies of two young boys. One firefighter is so torn up about this discovery that he actually falls to his knees because he's in so much emotional distress.
Speaker 1:I can only imagine how devastating that would have to be. I mean, were the boys shot like their father?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it has to be extra emotional when it is such a small town. They probably knew these boys in some way. So Bubba is the oldest of the two boys and he had been shot in the face, while eight-year-old Tyler had been stabbed multiple times to death.
Speaker 2:So while they're making this discovery, fisher is back at the trailer where he found Charlie and since he's arrested Charlie, he has been able to obtain a search warrant for the trailer where Charlie had been located. He goes back in and he starts by searching the back bedroom where Charlie had been arrested on the mattress. Now, there is no overhead light in that room, so he does pull a sheet down off the window so he can have more light. And when he does, he sees this blanket laying on the floor near the closet and it's very clear that there's something under it, right Like it looks like something is hidden away under there. Well, as Fisher lifts the blanket, he sees Erin, cathy, and he's shocked. Like she's laying on the ground, her back's up against the wall, she's in a fetal position and she's not moving much, and so like her hair's in her face, and he doesn't know that it's not moving much, and so like her hair's in her face and he doesn't know that it's Erin, right away, and he moves the hair out of her face and her eyes open, which has to be like a major shock yeah, for both of them really. But he asks who she is and she says her name's Erin and he's able to identify her through her driver's license that's in her purse. That was in the trailer. And so he gets her up and he takes her into the living room to start asking her a few questions. And one of the first questions he asked is like how did you get to this trailer from your home? However, when he asked that, she looks around and seems a little confused and dazed and just says, quote, where am I end? Quote. So Fisher feels like she's been drugged and of course he calls an ambulance because at this point he thinks she's a victim as well. He thinks that she was kidnapped, maybe from the home or something. So Aaron is transported to the hospital to be evaluated and is that at this time she's considered to also be a victim of charlie's?
Speaker 2:She says very little as they're asking questions, but she does tell them that she had woken up in a house full of smoke and that there had been quote two guys with swords and that they were dressed in black, all black, and they ordered her to get down on the floor. But she says she's still unsure how she'd gotten to the trailer where the police found her. She said she did remember trying to call her friend, charlie, but was unable to reach him on the phone, and then she said that she drank some stuff that was offered to her at the trailer, and then she couldn't remember anything after that. So the police, of course, are buying this. They have no reason at the moment to believe otherwise that.
Speaker 2:You know, her dad didn't say anything about her being a killer and they have no way of proving right now that what she says isn't the truth. And there's times where she's tearing up and she makes a really good victim in all of this. However, charlie's been arrested. He's been told that Terry had survived and had already pointed the finger at him. So he starts talking to police pretty quickly, and as he does, the events that Aaron has recounted to the police slowly start falling apart, and then the evidence that they start to locate also starts to point to the fact that Aaron is not being, you know, forthcoming.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that tends to happen when you're lying.
Speaker 2:Yes. So let's talk about the real events, or at least the best it can be pieced together from what all of the parties eventually confessed to and what the investigators can back up with evidence. So about 1.30 am, charlie and Charles Wade and Wade's girlfriend Bobbi, all loaded up in her silver Dodge Neon. Bobbi apparently didn't know at the time what the plans were. She just wanted to go along with the boys With Charles Wade driving. They pulled up to Aaron's home, only to be spooked away a moment later by the Caffey's dog barking like crazy. However, not long after they had pulled away from the home, erin called and she asked them to come back, and she promises that she's going to keep the dog quiet.
Speaker 1:I mean, at that time they had it out, so they should have just taken it they should have.
Speaker 2:but Wade decides to drive them back to the Kathy trailer and Erin exited her parents home and comes walking down the driveway and she gets into the Dodge Neon and they start driving around and at that time Charlie again tries to convince Erin to just run away with him. He doesn't want any part in the murder, he just wants to be with her. But Erin doesn't see it working that way. She has her mind set on her parents' death. So they come up with a plan and it became arranged that Charlie would kill Penny and Terry while Wade would kill the two boys to ensure that no witnesses were left.
Speaker 1:Charlie left a major witness, though.
Speaker 2:That he did and really, as everything plays out, they wouldn't really stick to their plan.
Speaker 1:Well, anyway, so what about Aaron and Bobby? Did they have roles in this, charlie?
Speaker 2:claimed, and then Charles Wade later confirmed that during all of this the girl stayed in the car and investigators kind of backed this up, because Erin never smelled like smoke and we know the house was on fire, so she wouldn't have been in the home while the fires were going. Erin just did one small favor for the boys, which was leaving the front door unlocked to make access into the home simple for them. Now, as they entered, they both went straight to the parents bedroom on the first floor. Charlie shot into the room with his .22 multiple times until the gun jammed. At that point he handed the gun over to Charles Wade, who managed to unjam the gun and fire off two more rounds before they left the room. However, as they're walking away, charlie decides to circle back around and cut Penny's throat with one of his samurai swords that he brought along to ensure that she was dead.
Speaker 1:That is a bit ironic, since he didn't do that to terry, who ended up surviving.
Speaker 2:Very true now as he's circling back with the sword. The two young boys, of course, have heard these gunshots and they're screaming for their parents and they run and lock themselves into aaron's room. Remember aaron's the oldest, so I guess they were going there thinking that she would help them. But she's not there Now. At this point Charlie has killed Aaron's parents and he's ready to leave. He wants even less part in killing the two boys than he wanted in killing the parents. But Charles Wade felt they could leave no loose ends. And when Charlie tried and tried to dissuade Charles, charles just threatened to leave. So Charlie gave in because he was afraid that Charles might go to the police. So he goes up to the door of Aaron's bedroom and he ends up coaxing the boys out.
Speaker 2:Now, when they come out, bubba puts a fight up against Charlie, and this is happening in the hallway of the second story, right near the railing, and Charles Wade is downstairs. So he raises the .22 and shoots off one round and it hits Bubba in the face and kills him instantly. He falls down in the hallway. Now at that time Charles runs and hides or not? Charles Tyler, who's eight, runs and hides into the closet, but quick on his heels are Charles, who comes stalking up the stairs after shooting Bubba in the face and he takes his samurai sword and he began stabbing Tyler to death in the closet, with the help of Charlie, because they each have a samurai
Speaker 2:sword. After they felt sure they had completed what they'd come to do, charlie gets the pre-packed suitcase for Aaron that she had left him in her room and he lugs it out to the car. Charles Wade went back in for the lockbox Aaron had promised, which held money, which was the money that he was supposed to get for helping to murder her parents, which, all in all, even with the lockbox and the money they take from her parents, ends up being like just over 300 bucks. Just far cry from the 2000 he was promised.
Speaker 1:So was there anything about like they ran out of bullets, or why did they decide to stab this little boy to death?
Speaker 2:I have no idea. I mean, it seems charles was the one who started stabbing him and he seems a little off his rocker.
Speaker 1:I mean, I know sometimes they say like the shock, you don't feel the rest. So I hope that's what happened to him. I hate the thought of this little boy just being stabbed to death. Yes, um.
Speaker 2:but once they have everything, they have the lockbox and they have the suitcase, everything that they want from the home the two boys fish lighters out from their pockets and they start setting like furniture and curtains and bed sheet, so anything they can um on fire. Now, as these confessions are coming from Charlie and then from Charles Wade, a phone call to Fisher goes out. Right, they're at the police, fisher is at the hospital and then we have the investigators who are at the police station talking to the two boys. So when Fisher answers the phone, the investigators let Fisher know that Erin had been a part of this whole ordeal and needed to be arrested. Like I said, fisher's at the hospital with Erin and her grandparents and when they tell him this over the phone, he's shocked to the point of speechlessness.
Speaker 1:So what about her dad? I know he was alive when the ambulance arrived.
Speaker 3:I mean, did he mention her or did?
Speaker 1:he even make it overworld the beings.
Speaker 3:Me too. Check out all these aliens. We have plenty. How do you feel about a good legend?
Speaker 1:Want to hear about spooky happenings? Yeah, you do. Let us show you what we've got.
Speaker 3:Hey guys, grab a drink and join us, amanda and Sean, every week, while we dive into the strange and haunting topics that have piqued our interest.
Speaker 1:See you over at the Haunted and the Strange, wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3:Stay spooky.
Speaker 2:So we talked about the whole murder scene. Let's talk about what happened when they left, Because his story of survival is a crazy one. After the four load up in that Dodge Neon and drive away, Terry began a slow, torturous crawl to try and make it to his neighbor's home. He was able to climb out of the window of this burning home and it took him over an hour to literally crawl about the length of four football fields to his neighbor's home for help. He had a broken nose, two fractured cheekbones and some minor nerve damage to his arm. And I do want to point out, because I know at the earlier I was talking about, he was laid in the living room floor. His neighbor took him back over there, so I don't really know why.
Speaker 1:I was just going to say why?
Speaker 2:Because it was burning, but I don't know. So in the hospital, and they may have gone back over there because he didn't know his boys were dead yet. So they may have been going trying to help the boys and realize that there was no way to do that. So in the hospital Terry said he just wanted to die. I mean, he at this point knew that his family was dead and he also assumed that Aaron was part of that. But he ended up finding out that Aaron was still alive and he thought that she had been a victim as Charlie's. You know that he, charlie likely killed her as well. So when he found out he said quote. Then I had something to live for. I had some hope. So I began to fight. But that hope would be short-lived because just within a half an hour of finding out she was alive, my sister came to me and told me Aaron had been arrested and had been charged with murder. End quote.
Speaker 1:Wow, that has to be really hard A really hard pill to swallow to find out after everything that your daughter had a part in killing everyone around you.
Speaker 2:Yes, so Terry was discharged from the hospital and he went to stay at his sister's house and he was in an understandably dark place.
Speaker 2:You know his whole family's dead, except for his daughter, but she's been arrested because she was part of this and he talks about very openly in a lot of interviews after this about his suicidal thoughts that he had not long after being discharged and the different ways he had planned it. But he never did go through with it and he started to find his faith again, but in finding that he would go twice a week to visit his daughter while she's in prison now, this is before the trial, um, and he said there was a lot of questions, of course, that are like heavy on his heart, that he really wants to know, but her lawyer had warned her about subjects that they her and her father couldn't discuss because the conversations could be used in court, and so he said that one of the questions he really wanted to know, that really that he could ask, was were he and his wife bad parents? You know, because you would feel like you have to be for your own daughter to want to murder you of course.
Speaker 1:But speaking of court, what were their sentences? I mean, did aaron get it easy, since she was a juvenile?
Speaker 2:everyone, except for bobby, who obviously had zero part in killing anyone relieved. Life sentences with no parole um, both boys went to trial and got life sentences with no parole. Aaron um, she took a plea and it was two consecutive life sentences plus 25 years and then bobby received 40 years in prison, which honestly seems crazy to me. That does because she I mean, I know she was in the car, but between 1 30 when it happened and 4 30 when the police arrived like that's not a lot of time to go to the police and you're probably terrified these two guys just killed people that's true, but be careful what friends you have.
Speaker 1:Yeah or the company.
Speaker 2:You keep that. So terry had gone on, has gone on and even during the trials of um, charlie and charles. Um has publicly forgiven all of them and he continues to support his only daughter, who has still not really admitted to being the mastermind behind this um you know sinister and needless plan that killed her own family that's.
Speaker 1:That's really sad. I don't know if I could. I would love to say I could do that, but I don't know if I could I will say that in court he tells them, uh, tells charlie especially.
Speaker 2:He says I forgive you, but not for you.
Speaker 1:I give forgive you for myself because I don't want to carry that basically uh, I mean that just eats you up like cancer, if you just let that eat away at you, right?
Speaker 2:and he actually there's um a project called the forgiveness project, and I didn't get to dive into it as deep as I wanted, but he is part of the Forgiveness Project, which seems to be a really interesting project, and he's also written a book that I wasn't able to read in time when I was researching but is on my list of books to read.
Speaker 2:It's called Terror by Night, the true story of the brutal texas murder that destroyed a family, restored one man's faith and shocked a nation. It's a very long book title that is um, but it probably talks a lot more about it. But as for the forgiveness project, and it is something that collects stories from, like the victims and survivors and the people who perpetrate the crimes and, and it kind of follows like, how they've rebuilt their lives from the hurt and the trauma that they have experienced. So I feel like it's something that's really beneficial and I love that he's a part of that, since he seems kind of the poster child, because it would be really hard to forgive somebody for everything he's endured that's true we always recommend more bubbly and less OJ.
Speaker 3:Cheers. If you'd like to see pictures from today's episode, you can find us at murdermimosas on Instagram. You can also find us at murdermimosas on TikTok Twitter and if you have a case you would like us to do, you can send that to murdermimosas at gmailcom. If you have a case you would like us to do, you can send that to murdermimosas at gmailcom. And lastly, we are on Facebook at Murder and Mimosas Podcast, where you can interact with us there. We love any type of feedback you can give us, so please right-move us on Spotify, itunes or wherever you listen to your podcasts.