Murder and Mimosas Podcast
A true crime podcast with a focus on lesser known crimes and the background of those who commit these heinous acts. Each case is told with a bit of southern sass, but with tons of in depth research and respect for those lost. Join this mom and daughter duo as they sip their mimosas while diving into tragic cases. New episodes every Saturday, just in time for brunch (and a mimosa of your own)!
Murder and Mimosas Podcast
The Devil's Defense: Unraveling the Arne Johnson Case
[EPISODE SHOW NOTES]
Welcome to a chilling journey into the unknown on this episode of Murder and Mimosas. Join us as we uncover the haunting case of Arne Johnson and Debbie Glatzel. From the eerie encounters that plagued their new home in Newton, Connecticut, to the shocking murder trial that followed, this episode will leave you questioning the boundaries of belief and fear. Get ready to hear from different family members, explore the complexities of mental health and legal defenses, and dive deep into the controversial aspects of this bone-chilling case. Don't miss out on this gripping episode that will leave you questioning the supernatural.
In "Murder and Mimosas: The Devil Made Me Do It," we unravel the disturbing events that unfolded after David's exorcisms. As Arne Johnson finds himself caught in the grips of a demonic presence, we witness the lead-up to the tragic incident that shook a community. Prepare to be captivated by Arne's shocking claim of demonic possession as a defense in the murder of his landlord, Alan Bono. With mental health issues and supernatural claims at the forefront, this chapter delves into the complexities of the justice system and the impact of these events on the lives of those involved.
Join us for an intriguing exploration of the controversial aspects of this case in "Murder and Mimosas: The Devil in Connecticut Perspective." As we navigate through different family members' contrasting perspectives and delve into Carl Glatzel's skepticism, we uncover the lasting effects of media attention on the Glatzel family. This chapter raises thought-provoking questions about the validity of demonic possession as a legal defense and invites you to join the conversation. Don't miss out on this captivating episode as we shed light on the complexities of belief, fear, and the broader implications of mental health in the face of the supernatural.
Sources:
sccb.org/prayer-and-worship/sacraments-and-sacramentals/sacramentals-blessings/exorcism
https://lawreview.vermontlaw.edu/the-devil-made-me-do-it-the-viability-of-demonic-possession-as-a-murder-defense/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Arne_Cheyenne_Johnson
https://stevenramirez.com/tag/ed-warren/
https://youtu.be/QIIXU5U6xto?si=5BRR3N7GmhGllpAi
https://www.businessinsider.com/glatzel-family-devil-on-trial-conjuring-arne-johnson-2023-10#:~:text=Arne%20Johnson,-Arnie%20Johnson%20in&text=Johnson%27s%20girlfriend%2C%20Debbie%20Glatzel%2C%20stayed,on%20to
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DarkCast Network. Welcome to the dark side of podcasting. Welcome to Murder and Mimosas a true crime podcast brought to you by a mother and daughter duo.
Speaker 2:Bringing you murder stories with a mimosa in hand. With a mimosa in hand, murder Mimosas is a true crime podcast, meaning we talk about adult matters such as murder, sexual assaults and other horrendous crimes. Listener discretion is advised. We do tell our stories with the victims and the victims families in mind. However, some information is more verifiable than others. However, you can find all of our information linked in the show notes. Welcome back to Murder and Mimosas, the Wicked Wednesday edition. I'm Danica.
Speaker 1:And I'm Shannon.
Speaker 2:We hear about the temporary insanity plea and other similar pleas, but have you ever heard of the man that tried to claim that he was demonically possessed as a plea? Well, that's what we're going to talk about today, and how exactly that panned out for him. Arnie Johnson and Debbie Glatzel are temporarily living with Debbie's family while they save money to rent something of their own. They finally rent a place in newton, connecticut, and are excited to move in. First, they have to clean it up, though. Debbie is the oldest of four and she has three younger brothers and takes them with her and arnie to start cleaning up the house.
Speaker 2:David was 11 years old at the time and he was the youngest of the siblings. Debbie assigns all the boys a chore, and David was to sweep the master bedroom. David's in there sweeping when she sees him fly out of the house and he doesn't come back in for the rest of the day. It's July 2nd of 1980 and he's out for summer. She's thinking okay, he's young, maybe he just wants to play outside. Whatever, she has more than enough to worry about and doesn't have time to coddle him. So they return back to her parents house house that evening and David starts telling his mother about what he saw. He says that he saw what looked like someone in a Halloween costume, dressed as the devil, with these black charcoal eyes. He often refers to him as the old man. David says that the old man was saying.
Speaker 1:Beware, beware, beware.
Speaker 2:They ask what he's referring to, about being aware, and David said he wants my soul.
Speaker 1:Pretty creepy, especially coming from an 11 year old.
Speaker 2:Definitely. But they don't really believe him at first. They think like he has an overactive imagination or possibly he's acting out because he doesn't want his sister to leave and he's not really sure how to like express it. This is obviously the time where men don't really do a lot of expressing their emotions. Therapy is not something that's really talked about, so they kind of chalk it up to like that or possibly just an overactive imagination.
Speaker 2:So david tells arnie and debbie that the house is haunted and he doesn't want them to live there. They had agreed to let arnie's mother move in with them too. So they go back to the house and they're a little skeptical now because david said there'll be scratches on the door. True to his word, there were. Debbie doesn't want to move in, but they just spent two months rent to get this place and, not to mention, arnie's mom was moving in too. They decide they aren't taking the house and they tell Arnie's mom, who doesn't buy this whole haunted house hubbubaloo, not to mention she already gave up her place and now needs a place to live. So she tells him she's going to stay there herself.
Speaker 1:Then Not how you want to start off with your future mother-in-law.
Speaker 2:Right, and while I'm sure that Arnie and Debbie wanted to move out, they just go back to Debbie's family and left his mother high and dry.
Speaker 1:At this point, they had not actually even spent the night in the house. They just go back to Debbie's family and left his mother high and dry. At this point, they had not actually even spent the night in the house. They just decided against the house based off what David had said at this point. Is that right?
Speaker 2:Right. But David did start showing some really odd behavior. He kept talking about the man coming to get him. The family could see him having fights with, like I guess you could say, an invisible entity of some kind. It looked like he was being choked. But how do you get something off your child that you can't even see? There would be these red marks on his neck after these fights. He would begin to howl or hiss randomly and speak in various voices as well as start reciting passages from the Bible. They start taking turns staying up in David's room at night to watch over him. Then Judy, who's David's mother, calls a priest up to the house. He talks with David and he talks to the family and he says the best I can do is give you these candles and some holy water, and you can just pray.
Speaker 1:I mean I believe in prayer and all that Like that's the best you can do.
Speaker 2:I don't know if you remember with the case we covered last year, but getting an exorcism is hard and it's a very timely process. Also, he's not even really convinced if David's possessed, because this is not his area of expertise. So the family lights the candle, they pray, they use the holy water, but David continues with his odd and erotic behavior. So they're calling the priest again and he comes back and this time he blesses the house, not really sure why. He didn't do it the first time, but he does it this time. He also says he's going to consult some people on demonic possession to see if they can come out to the house. I'm gonna be honest, when I was researching and found this, I for some reason thought he's going to talk to another priest that possibly like does exorcism. But no, he contacted ed and lorraine warren, the infamous ghost hunters, if you will. Ed was said to be a self-taught demonologist and Lorraine was a clairvoyant.
Speaker 1:This is odd. I don't know much about this sort of thing, but I would have thought that they would have handled this internally, I guess, if that's the word.
Speaker 2:Well, if you don't know who Ed and Lorraineraine are, they were in the news a lot back in the day and were said to help with cases like amityville, and the movies like the conjuring are loosely based on their lives and investigation and they come out to speak to the family, as well as to david.
Speaker 2:Apparently they may be able to speed up the exorcism process by documenting what's going on and ruling out that this isn't a mental health issue, a physical health issue or even a drug-induced behavior which I don't think they're doctors, so I'm not sure how they can rule these out, but they determine that David needs an exorcism. Like I said, exorcisms can take time. Even with the process sped up with the warrants, it's not quick. They decide that they'll do a minor exorcism, which I didn't know was an option, but okay, last year I felt like I researched exorcisms pretty extensively when doing the Annalise case and if you haven't heard it, go back to October of last year and listen. It actually popped up in my memories today and I don't remember anything about a minor and major exorcism in that research.
Speaker 1:I'm over here trying to think at what point would someone say, just give me the minor exorcism I mean, and what's the difference between the two?
Speaker 2:Yeah, this isn't a surgery like oh yeah, I have a minor cut, you can just put a band-aid on it versus like, oh, it's a little deep, like maybe we should do stitches. So I'm gonna read this right from the united states conference of catholic bishops, quote while both forms of exorcism are directed against the power of the devil, the rite of major exorcism is employed only when there is a case of genuine demonic possession, namely when it is determined that the presence of the devil is in the body of the possessed and the devil is able to exercise dominion over the body. Over the body. Minor exorcisms are prayers used to break the influence of the evil and sin in a person's life, whether as a catechumen preparing for baptism or one of the baptized faithful striving to overcome the influence of evil in his or her life. End quote.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm still confused as to why the minor exorcism if if they've determined he's possessed, though I agree, I am too.
Speaker 2:I did read that they did three minor ones, and this is just my opinion, but I'm assuming they're hoping this helps if it's the right word until the major one can be done. So it's kind of like you take some pain medicine until you can go have a surgery type of thing is basically what it seems like.
Speaker 2:Yeah that's true. So you know, like a band-aid fix, yeah. Also, I want to add that the minor exorcism can be performed by any member of the clergy, but the major exorcism can only be done by a bishop or a priest who's obtained the special permission of a diocesan bishop. During the minor exorcisms they said that David would levitate at times, he would stop breathing and he had the ability to see in the future. This is still some scary stuff to witness. And at one point Arnie yells to the demon Take me, leave him alone, he's just a kid. David returns to his old self and Arnie seems to be fine too, for a few days anyway. He then sees the figure that David described when he's getting into his car one night.
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Speaker 2:Arnie says it took control of the car and crashed him into a tree. Arnie decides to go back to the rental house his mother was in and check it out and to check on his mother. He finds his mother has fled and taking her things with her. While he was there he is attacked by the demon. Arnie and Debbie find a new place to rent. They rent an apartment from Debbie's boss, 40-year-old Alan Bono, and Debbie works as a dog groomer for Alan and the couple are friendly with Alan During this time. Lorraine goes to the Brookfield police according to the documentary the Devil on Trial and tells the police that Arnie has challenged the devil and exorcism to take him instead, she said. I see serious injury or death with a knife, according to Detective Glenn Cooper who worked there at the time.
Speaker 1:I just got chills. But at the same time this sucks because they can't do anything before a crime even happens.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and let's be real.
Speaker 1:The cops probably looked at her funny and were like uh, okay, yeah, especially when you're like I'm telling you this is true, I'm clairvoyant.
Speaker 2:I'm talking about demons and you know, reading the future and you know to most people that would sound weird. Yeah, so February 16th of 1981, Arnie calls in sick to work. He goes to the kennel where Debbie works and he has a sister, Wanda, and Debbie's nine-year-old cousin. The group, along with Alan, went to lunch at a local bar and had drinks quite a few, from my understanding after lunch and they head back to the kennel. Alan was pretty wasted at this time and he grabbed mary, which is debbie's nine-year-old cousin. Arnie orders him to release her.
Speaker 2:Mary ran for the car and debbie got between the two, trying to like calm down the situation. Arnie began to growl and then pulled a pocket knife and began to stab alan. Deb, Debbie called 911, and Allen was rushed to the hospital, but he didn't make it. Arnie left and police found him about two miles away on foot. He tells police he can't remember anything. Arnie is charged with first-degree murder and oddly enough this was the first-ever murder in Brookfield, Connecticut. Arnie, as well as Debbie, insists to the attorney martin manella that arnie physically did this, but only because he was possessed by the devil how did this go over with the attorney?
Speaker 2:I think at first he was probably like what are these two smoking? But she said she was going to do some research on it. I'm sorry. He said he was going to do some research on it and he did. He went to Ed and Lorraine Warren for that research. They played him the audio tapes from the exorcisms that were performed on David, showed him pictures that were taken as well, and the defense had never used like this in the type of defense in the United States.
Speaker 2:David Berkowitz, also known as the son of Sam, was charged with six counts of second degree murder in 78. And he tried to cite demons as like the reason that he killed. His attorney planned on using that to get the insanity plea, but David ended up in the end pleading guilty. So martin cited three cases in england that had used this plea and to my surprise, all three had been acquitted there. The judge, robert callahan, threw this out and said you cannot prove demonic possession. There were several priests in the courtroom at the time that got up together and marched out of the courtroom after hearing this.
Speaker 1:I get what he's saying, but in reality, can you really prove temporary insanity? Isn't that all a matter of expert witnesses' testimony? And if you can sway the jury to believe you, you know, have the right experts in this matter.
Speaker 2:You have a point, but you know it's up to the judge. He doesn't want this in his courtroom, so he makes that decision. Of course that could be overturned later, but we're not there. I also want to take a step back for a minute to give you all sides of the story. David's father doesn't buy the demonic stuff. He felt that David was having some mental health issues and he wanted zero part in the exorcism nonsense but at the same time he didn't stop his family from pursuing this.
Speaker 1:We're excited to announce our collaboration on a special project for Domestic Violence Awareness Month this October.
Speaker 2:Inspired by Rebecca's legacy, a project started by Rebecca Barsotti's mother, Angela, will be working with Moms and Mysteries and Navigating Advocacy to donate 10 bags filled with essential items to local domestic violence shelters to local domestic violence shelters.
Speaker 1:These bags are a way to honor Rebecca's memory and help survivors. No-transcript. You ready Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Carl Glatzel, the oldest of the three brothers, was 15. He had a different opinion and account of what occurred. He said that the Warrens were there often at first, recording and taking pictures, rather than actually helping, when David would have his so-called episodes of growling, cussing and such. He claims his father was in the bedroom one night when this occurred and he came storming out. He picked David up, spanked him and told him to sit down and shut up, which he did. Debbie, arnie, the two other brothers, judy and Warren, all have very different stories from those nights. You be the judge.
Speaker 1:I know we also talk about how hard it is to get someone in a mental health facility against their will, and this isn't the same case at all. But if you tell me that my child or my boyfriend is possessed, I don't know that I want you to leave them there with me. I mean, you need to take them because I'm going to freak out if they start levitating and howling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's definitely scary and I'm not trying to do that either. If it takes so long to get an exorcism, you take them with you until you can get me one. So on December 18th of 1981, after three days of deliberation, the jury found Arnie guilty of first-degree manslaughter and he was sentenced to 10 to 20 years in prison. He and Debbie got married while he was in prison and he actually got out after only serving five years.
Speaker 2:The two were married until Debbie died in 2021 so was the exorcism ever performed on Arnie no, this is something I researched a lot because, my in mind, a demon won't leave on its own accord. So if it's there, you know you would have to do an exorcism to get rid of it, otherwise it could just leave at any time, right, but I don't know. Maybe there was like a prison exorcism, okay, so according to Ed, this is a progression of demonic activity. Number one is permission you did something to invite the demon, for example a Ouija board, which stay tuned for another Wicked Wednesday episode. It's about Ouija boards. Number two is infestation with your spirits in the home, but not like messing with you, they're just they're just hanging out okay yeah, they're like a teenage roommate.
Speaker 2:Okay. Oppression is number three, which was when an entity is starting to take over, and then four is possession the body's taken over and these are very rare. And then five is death, and I don't think that needs an explanation. I mentioned the brother, carl, that said that this is all hogwash.
Speaker 2:In 1983, gerald brittle wrote a book, with the assistance of lorraine, called the devil in connecticut, based on what occurred. I have not read the book, but it it supposedly claims that Carl committed criminal and abusive acts against his family. Carl and David did end up suing the author as well as the publisher for violating their rights to privacy. It was dismissed due to lack of grounds. Lorraine had originally told the family that they would be rich from the book. They were actually only ever paid two thousand dollars by the book publisher. Carl claims that due to the publicity publicity he was forced to drop out of school and he lost friends and business opportunities over this. In 2007, he wrote a book called alone through the valley about his take on what happened. I have also not read this book.
Speaker 1:Seems a little sus that Carl has such a different account of what happened when he was the one painted in a bad light in the book. I mean, the rest didn't profit off of it but didn't change their stories.
Speaker 2:Well, carl also says that after his mother passed he found a piece of paper that said Gave the family their medicine tonight. Everything was good he concluded that meant she put somonex, which is a sleep aid, in their food.
Speaker 1:He feels like she did it to control all of them and over time one of the side effects was giving david hallucinations that seems like a really bold conclusion, and the fact he made it up after she passed to be able to confirm or deny is kind of crappy. I mean, does he say why he thinks this at all?
Speaker 2:No, he didn't say, but I assume it just fits his narrative and I also gathered he didn't care much for his mother. But I do agree. Like talk about jumping to conclusions, dude, jump the Grand Canyon to get there. I know it seems like we glossed over the victim and all this, which is never our intent. Honestly, there's not a ton of information I could find. The only thing I could find was that he lived in Australia for roughly 17 months. He he then moved to Brookfield from Florida, helped his sister manage the kennel and the apartment she owned. I honestly wish we knew more about him as a person, but it's really all I could find.
Speaker 1:Well, let us know what you think. Are there demonic spirits? Should demonic possession be a defense in court in your opinion? What do you think? We always recommend more bubbly and less OJ Cheers.
Speaker 3:If you'd like to see pictures from today's episode, you can find us at murdermimosas on Instagram. You can also find us at murdermimosas on TikTok Twitter, and if you have a case you'd like us to do, you can send that to murdermimosas at gmailcom. And lastly, we are on Facebook at Murder and Mimosas Podcast, where you can interact with us there. We love any type of feedback you can give us, so please write your view us on Spotify, iTunes or wherever you listen to your podcasts.