Murder and Mimosas Podcast
A true crime podcast with a focus on lesser known crimes and the background of those who commit these heinous acts. Each case is told with a bit of southern sass, but with tons of in depth research and respect for those lost. Join this mom and daughter duo as they sip their mimosas while diving into tragic cases. New episodes every Saturday, just in time for brunch (and a mimosa of your own)!
Murder and Mimosas Podcast
From Bomb Deals to PTSD: The Double Life of Billy the Liquor Guy
Ever wondered what it's like to walk the thin line between law enforcement and the criminal underworld? Join us for an eye-opening conversation with Billy the Liquor Guy, a retired senior investigator for New York State's Petroleum, Alcohol, and Tobacco Bureau (PATB). Billy takes us through his pulse-pounding career highlights, from purchasing bombs from white supremacists to posing as a hitman and uncovering dark networks of human trafficking and terrorism. His candid recounting of these dangerous missions showcases the intense world of undercover operations, where a single misstep could lead to life-or-death consequences.
In addition to thrilling tales of infiltration and high-stakes arrests, we explore the heavy emotional toll of Billy's undercover work, revealing his struggle with PTSD and the therapeutic journey that followed. Discover how writing his book "Under Too Long" became a path to healing, and how he navigated the complex task of revealing his true identity to a "girlfriend" who played a crucial role in his survival. This episode also sheds light on the often-overlooked significance of untaxed cigarettes in funding terrorist activities and the specialized expertise needed to detect counterfeit tobacco. Whether you're intrigued by law enforcement or the human spirit's resilience, Billy's story is a compelling testament to both.
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Darkast Network. Welcome to the dark side of podcasting. A true crime podcast brought to you by a mother and daughter duo.
Speaker 2:Murder Mimosas is a true crime podcast, meaning we talk about adult matters such as murder, sexual assaults and other horrendous crimes. Listener discretion is advised. We do tell our stories with the victims and the victims' families in mind. However, some information is more verifiable than others. However, you can find all of our information linked in the show notes. Welcome to Murder Mimosas.
Speaker 1:I'm Danica, I'm Shannon and today we have a special guest, billy the Liquor Guy. He's a retired senior investigator for New York State's Petroleum, alcohol and Tobacco Bureau which we will refer to as a PATB.
Speaker 2:Throughout the interview. He was actually appointed as a US Marshal after 9-11. He's best known for his undercover work with untaxed cigarettes and alcohol. Billy's ability to adapt to the criminal element caught the attention of the New York State Attorney General and the Drug Task Force. This partnership led to one of New York State's largest arrests cover. Billy exposed an unparalleled amount of illegal activity, which included bomb manufacturing, human trafficking rings and the terrorists responsible for scouting out the World Trade Center on September 10th.
Speaker 1:He also dined with bad guys, purchased bombs and traveled abroad to reclaim an informant, and he faced several challenges in life or death situations. Along the way, I'll start.
Speaker 3:Hello, I'm Bill. I was an undercover agent for 12 years. I wrote a book about my experiences which is called Under Too Long by Billy the Liquor Guy. That is my first book. My second book should be in publication soon because I just finished the editing last week. So I'm excited about the second book, which is called and this was the publisher's idea, which I agreed with the Making of Billy the Liquor Guy, not exactly a prequel. It's catchy because the second book will be about the PTSD I went through because of 10 years undercover.
Speaker 3:My first book, under Too Long, deals with my undercover experience, some of the exciting stuff I did like bought a bomb from a white supremacist. I got hired as a hitman. I bought guns, drugs I guess at bombs but after 10 years of undercover, being involved in a couple shootouts, one where actually bullets flew, another one where guns were drawn and I also had a gun pointed at my head that clicked during a drug deal that went bad After I retired, which which was I was chasing bad guys in tunisia. After about three months after I retired I found I couldn't get off my couch and that lasted for months I'm not saying a year, but it seemed like about two and finally I decided that I better go get help, and thus the title Under Too Long, because when I finally seeked psychiatric help, the psychiatrist said well, after a few visits, you know, I wasn't getting any better.
Speaker 3:He said well, finally, first of all, he said the drugs which he prescribed for me, which take a little while to adapt to your body. So let's be patient, we'll try different things. Then also he said write a journal. Oh, after the second appointment, after that I, you know, my psychiatrist said this is a book, you know. I said you should write a book, and so I just started making notes for five years and I finally ended up writing a book. I did have help with a ghostwriter, because number one my publisher now calls me tech boy because I don't. It was all handwritten.
Speaker 2:Billy was in a purgatory state in his career after losing many fellow officers in the 9-11 attacks on the Twin Towers. When called into the office of his new superior, billy was resigned to the fact that he would be let go.
Speaker 3:but fate had different plans for him was resigned to the fact that he would be let go, but fate had different plans for him. I walk in the office and Mr Stan looks at me and goes you got a pretty interesting. In fact I look on the desk because there's all stickies on my file, those little yellow stickums, and there was a lot. He just said you got an interesting file. I go yes, sir, and he goes. Well, let me ask you something. First of all. His first question he asked me goes did you own a bar while you were on before you joined the agency? I go, yes, I did, sir. He goes. Well, tell me about the bar. Said quote well, you know, I came in at four o'clock, I bought it with a partner of mine and, uh, we bought a sports bar because I had worked for social services and child support, child neglect, and I just had enough and I had. I once I had kids. I could not do that type of work anymore because it was involved child abuse and stuff. So I got a bar with a friend of mine, the sports bar, and he said well, you know I was rambling. He said no, okay, I'll let you. He goes. Listen, I don't give a in the bar. What, what did you become aware of illegal in the bar and so me, being still building, I had that street stuff, I go. Well, I heard that people buy untaxed product from certain sources. They buy liquor bars so they have an extra amount so they don't have to claim that on their taxes. I heard that they have two or multiple cash registers, one which is always open and you can put money in there, extra money, so you know. He said okay. He said listen, so you feel pretty comfortable with liquor. He said listen, so that's so, you feel pretty comfortable with liquor. Or said, listen, I'm putting a team together. Some of it's going to involve undercover work. I want you to sell illegal liquor or whatever else we give you in New York state. I said well, I can handle that. And he said well, okay, one more. It went well, he goes, so you ready to go. I said yeah, boss, tell me when I start. He says well, go home. And more it went well, he goes, so you ready to go. I said yeah, boss, tell me when I start. He says well, go home and tell your family that you're going to be undercover and you're going to be gone a lot.
Speaker 3:And the gentleman I was with was a very straight shooter, tony in the first book, great guy, but more of a straight shooter. We balanced out well because I played the degenerate criminal, he, I played the degenerate criminal. He was the businessman and he was good at it. First he said, okay, you guys are going to start selling liquor. Well, eventually what we tried is that boss, this ain't working selling the stores and we have to go to bars, dive bars, to try to get into criminal world. Wherever we're going to be, whether it's Omyra, rochester in central New York, northern New York, southern New York we have to get into the more, as you want to say, low-life bars. As soon as we started doing that, it blossomed, and blossomed so well that about six months in, tony and I are down in Elmira, new York, and we went into this biker bar and we hit a home run in there, because there was a lot of illegal activity.
Speaker 3:In fact it was, you know, a lot of bikers, pretty dangerous place. But you know, I acclimated myself to the situation where Tony was portrayed as the businessman and I was the degenerate criminal. You know, gambler, drug addict or not drug, but a drinker, a drunk, you know. And then a couple of visits to this biker bar in Omyra. I said hey, we don't want to come all the way out here because it was like 50 miles. I said what else you got in town? He said well, there's another biker bar called Softails, but unknowns to me. It was actually a front for a Jamaican gang. I found that out later, after my second visit there and after I, you know, sell some small stuff, nothing was wild. A few Jamaicans came out from a side door at a bar and were approaching me and Tony said I think we're going to get robbed. I said well, let's see, jamaican, what you got there, bro, you, you know. I said well, we got all sorts of stuff, guys. We got cigarettes, we got liquor, I got some, you know, I embellished, not embellished. I went a little further, like I went, got Gucci, purses and stuff that I had contacts of my friends from my former childhood, you know. So I picked up a lot of illegal stuff. So it was like a little van which had all sorts of things. Anyways, these guys come up to me and all of a sudden they start thinking, asking me questions. I said, hey guys, listen, I also sell cigarettes, you guys interested in cigarettes? So I gave them a couple of cartons just for promo. But I got a liquor. So anyways, I do that. Everything went well, we're glad. Handed each other, you know, slapped you know, gave each other fives and stuff. We're going to go into business.
Speaker 3:Well, about two o'clock in the morning, if I recollect I'm staying I get a phone call from Mr Stan, my director of the petroleum alcohol tobacco bureau. Hey, were you at a shit bar, but it's not worth anything. Busted the boss. The guy bought like two bottles of liquor and he was dickering for that. I'm sorry. He bought four bottles of liquor, two more, like you know, bar whiskey, you know what they call the speed rack, which is the real shit stuff.
Speaker 3:He goes. Well, listen, I think you fell upon something. He goes because I got a phone call while you were there from the New York State Narcotics Task Force, specifically the Attorney General's office. At the time the Attorney General was Andrew Cuomo. A meeting with the attorney general. He goes listen, this is going to be pretty big. I'm not sure what's going on, but just keep it under your hat, show up. So, me, I showed up to meet with the attorney general in what we call the Golden Tower and I got my sneakers on, untied wind pants and a ripped T-shirt, and, of course, tony was dressed more businesslike. My boss goes. Really I go. I've been up for 12, 20 hours.
Speaker 3:This is what I had on Tony dresses like. So he so, anyways, we go in there, and he was a great guy. We just start out that he goes. So this is what my task force is up against. You know, this old heavyset guy and Tony and his polo shirts and tacky pants and whatever it is, I go, I guess. So, sir, and you know they were very complimentary, but they said here's what we got. You just fell into a major drug kingpin who works out of there, who transports stuff from New York City.
Speaker 3:Tell Myra up and down the state, would you be interested in continuing undercover work as a drug dealer or drug purchaser and see what you get? I said, well, I can handle that, you know. And he said it was very nice. So he said all right, you work for me. Now he says you report tomorrow morning. Just let me know what you need. I go, of course me, I go. Well, we need cars. You know we need better equipment, which he gave us stuff that I never even dreamed of. You know I had a button cam that I put on my button of my whatever shirt I was wearing. It picks up the audio and the video. We got a whole bunch of brand new nice cars, escalades, top of the line, you know. Portray yourself as once. We knew we're going to get involved in the drugs. We did not use those at first until I made the deal. Anyways, everyone's happy.
Speaker 2:Billy took each new assignment as a fun adventure, towing the line between criminal and cop. He had a family lineage in the mafia, making him well apt to deal with the streets and his undercover operations. What started off as selling untaxed liquor began to involve drugs like cocaine. Billy even created a cover story on why he needed the coke that got him off the hook from having to do any himself.
Speaker 3:We're getting a little out of our, beyond their scope. I said no, don't worry about it's going to be fun. I don't think I'm going to call it fun, billy. You know he was very, you know very. But again it was easy playing the degenerate, because that's kind of what I was, you know. So I hung around with a lot of this criminal type element because when I left the meeting, tom goes, one more thing he goes was your grandfather in the mafia.
Speaker 3:I go yes, he was, sir. He goes. Well, you're going to undercover school, you know, because we've got to get some, because if something bad happens we have to be protected. I go, you mean like a shot. He goes, oh yeah, exactly. So he goes again. Go home and tell your family that it's going to get more dangerous and stuff. So I don't want any, you know, hard feelings or anything. So Tony went home, explained it to the family. I never said a word. I just said I'm getting transferred. You know I wasn't. I never really told him what I was doing. So that's how my career started the first day at undercover school.
Speaker 3:I walk in, I'm in the wind pants just the flip-flops, torn t-shirt and they handpicked 40 people from New York State, all supposedly top-notch guys, but they got the polo shirts, the khaki pants, they got computers, I got a yellow pad and they go and of course there's 40 of us 39 of them are dressed like that and you've got the short, the heavyset old guy and the instructor comes up to me and he looks at me and he goes. Did you think about what you're going to wear or did you just pick it up off the floor. I go. Actually, your mother dressed me when I left your house this morning, so, boom. But everyone laughed. But he said there's an undercover, because he's quick on the feet, what I call the guy behind me, who I'll just say was some type of law enforcement I won't mention the agency, but he goes. Oh, you got to look like a slob to get in, he goes. Well, yeah, he goes. Plus, if you dress like you, you dress like you do, you're going to get shot or you're not going to get nothing done. He's going to get stuff done because, unbeknownst to me, I also found out that the New York State Narcotics Drug Task Force in the last four months, had sent three guys in to this biker bar and they didn't make it as far. They got thrown out on their ass because they were just, you know, okay, cops. I guess that's about it.
Speaker 3:And so my career blossomed and next thing I do, I'm undercover for 10 years doing what I do and Tony goes are you out of your mind? He goes, we're going to buy drugs and guns and stuff. I said, well, we're going to see Again, it's going to be fun. So, anyways, and I said, plus, I got a plan and the next day he goes how the hell are we going to buy drugs? I go, I got a couple of friends that know a lot about drugs. He said, of course you do, you're going to handle the business. And he said, okay, and the next day I go. Okay, I got a plan, I go. What I go? I'm going to say the Coke is for my girlfriend, because how else could an older guy like me, unless he was supplying Coke to a young lady, get involved in drugs? And I even used that for a while. That I said, no, you know, because they're going to maybe. I said, listen, guys, I'm going to buy the drug but I can't do Coke because I got a heart condition. He goes oh yeah, that's going to work. Well, lo and behold, it did.
Speaker 3:I did smoke a lot of marijuana, especially once you do it with the Jamaicans. You don't make a deal without doing some hooch. My life changed drastically. So I went on to be Bill the Liquor Guy. I was very successful. Like I said major arrest, felony arrest.
Speaker 3:I did work my way up the line to terrorists and our Middle Easterners, because then we blossomed out, when we got really good at it. We were setting up stores, or I call stores, warehouses. That were, you know, currently in garages, storage facilities, warehouses in Virginia, some in New York, some in Pennsylvania, some in Jersey, and our job was to advertise for untagged cigarettes, but we advertised in a middle eastern or arabic newspaper. But the key when you deal with arabs is that you have to have an arab involved. So most, most, 99 percent of arabs will not deal with caucasians or anybody else unless they're arabs. But we had a gentleman that we had turned and he was our front man and myself and, uh, people, I was like just a guy in the warehouse loading the trucks and doing different things and, as you say, the warehouse guy, but I always, you know, when people were coming in with the Jamaican or the Arabs and everyone else, but we had a select group of people.
Speaker 3:I would eventually approach them for guns or drugs. You know I said this, you know I'm no, they got to know me as so you're the real boss, I go. Well, I'm a partner, I said, but I deal in different stuff. All my stuff I do is all by myself, all different things. It's just me and you. So no one's going to have any issues. If they do, I know it's you that blew me in. I said, cause you know I've been doing this since I've been to jail a couple of times. I'm not going back. So it's got to be you guys, because I know and I so, along with the gab, continue to gab and I just bought my share of guns, drugs, bombs and, like I said, I got hired as a hitman and human trafficking Anything you could name.
Speaker 3:I got involved in the criminal element for probably the next seven, eight years, because a couple of years I was just doing the alcohol and cigarettes but I didn't even hardly touch the cigarettes anymore. So that was my career. And the way I had a girlfriend while I was underneath. She was a madam and she was a criminal and you know we had. We developed a nice relationship where you know she believed what I was doing and you know a lot of promises After this we're going to get together the whole white picket fence, you know I mean I gave her. You know this is how I feel about you. We got to do something and she had actually warned us twice that we were going to get robbed and killed. It's both times in the book. That is sunshine, which she saved our lives twice and not to fast forward, but that that was devastating. When I had to tell her that I was a cop, you know she was, yeah, it was really I felt really bad for me.
Speaker 3:The reason we got involved is because the money financed the terrorist activities was from untaxed cigarettes. That's what funded all the terrorist operations, because it was looked at as an easy, you know just a crime of a nuisance crime, but because the charges were so little they. But that's where all the danger come from. So, and eventually, you know, that's why my small agency became very important, because we were of the knowledge of the, you know tobacco. So we became very important and all the other agencies went with us, followed along. We're the lead agency and even to educate ourselves more. Because I had no idea about cigarettes, I did not know that about the planes that flew in there were financed by intact cigarettes. I did not know that all the stuff they make all different, how they detect pirate and illegal cigarettes, is all stuff secretive, somewhat. That's how they're manufactured, how they're packaged. You know, we went to cigarette school in Richmond, virginia, and from that we learned all stuff.
Speaker 3:Like the actual little cellophane they wrap it. It's wrapped a little different and they change it. How it's wrapped. There's like little clues on the cigarette pack, specifically the M in Marlboro, if it's pirated or if they fake it. It's like the M, the lines of the M are straight. But if you look close on a little microscope or a little thing, they got little jagged edges in them. You know in the end the line. So I mean then we have special lights that we could see if in fact they're, you know, fake cigarettes.
Speaker 3:So, that's what we do and, like I said, it just kept rolling and we became very proficient. There was about five, six guys that were a core group that we became very good. In fact I just met them, saw them again yesterday. Yesterday we had a little get together and we do, but you know, everyone's getting old, they're getting old.
Speaker 1:I get that they're getting old. I get that they're getting old.
Speaker 3:So any questions you have, or any, I mean, I can go on, but I don't want to, you know, just bore you guys, I don't know.
Speaker 1:We both read the book. Yeah, it wasn't boring at all. No, it was very great. Yeah, it was amazing. I learned a lot too. I didn't know anything like that about the cigarettes.
Speaker 3:I was like this is yeah, so what they were supposed to be the chapter where I took all my clothes off and ran into the van to start my stuff. That was supposed to be to get you thing it would, it would. A lot of fans said, but you know it's interesting, a lot of fans did, but a lot of people that know me said, oh yeah, that's billy. You know, in fact it was funny. People met me for two hours or they knew me my whole life. They said I could see that, yeah, that's so.
Speaker 3:But uh, like I said I, my problem was after a few years I became billy the liquor guy. You know I'm saying it was life. You know I had no life or no, nothing that just kind of disappeared on the rails. I just was work, work, work and you know I couldn't wait to get up every day to go play. So I'm harry, I'm, I'm playing. You know I'm a law enforcement agent and then. But I'm a criminal. In fact I'll let you guys be the first scoop that I, at CrimeCon in Nashville, somewhere along the line, unbeknownst to me, I met somebody. Some lady came up and wanted to know she was.
Speaker 3:You know well, you've seen how the table was set up you know, authors there and you know everyone's trying to do stuff and I just, you know it wasn't my turn to speak, but you know, we tried to give other people a turn at the table and some little old lady came up with a couple other elderly women I'll say, you know, older than me and she goes. She was a sweetheart, she goes. I want to talk to the guy that did the undercover and had got PTSD. Well, that's me, man. I said what can I do for you? So well, tell me about the PTSD. I'd like to learn more about it. So I went through what I did the book and then one of the ladies said no, I don't remember her name. And they said well, listen, it's your birthday, we'll buy a book. So I go, okay, we'll get. I go oh, it's your birthday, you know whatever name was. I said listen, I'd like to give you a book for your birthday and let me give you my Gmail If you've got any other questions you can ask me. She goes oh, thank you, honey. You know, when you're 71 years old and an older lady calls you honey, okay, okay, so she goes.
Speaker 3:Um, about eight or 10 days later, I get this strange email from uh, someone said listen, first of all I want to thank you for being so nice to my mother. She sent me the book. I love it. She loved it. She sent me the book. I couldn't put it down. Well, he's an exec. There's some connection with william morris agency where there's executive producers involved. He said I'd like to. I think we could do a movie about your book. Now I know nothing about that stuff, but I do know who william morris agency is. You know they're big time. Yeah. So he says we're gonna put together. And they did a little interview with me first I thought it was one of my buddies busting my ball I would say yank of the chin el babo, and you know the different guys in the book.
Speaker 3:In fact I was just babo, jeff who, and at night they're all strange characters. I was out there, but these guys weren't too far behind, which made it successful. So, anyways, I did the interview. They said we set it up line. They love it, they love the book, they love the character you play. They love the character you are, because I did a live interview for almost an hour and a half. So I'm waiting for my attorney to get the papers. But they're going to and we're going to do a little demi, a little mini documentary which they're going to promote Billy the Liquor Guy from a book to a movie or a series. We'll see If that comes off. That'll be unbelievable.
Speaker 2:That would be amazing. I would definitely watch it.
Speaker 3:Reading it was great. So getting to see it, yeah, that would be amazing I would definitely watch it.
Speaker 2:I was reading it was great, so getting to see it on screen would be just as amazing.
Speaker 3:I was lucky, right place, right time. I was a natural head. It wasn't too hard to be a criminal because of the my surroundings when I grew up and I knew the lingo, lingo and, but I didn't know about the drugs. I did reach out to again, a couple of my friends who sold drugs. I got educated on the prices, the lingo, because even though I knew very little, I knew the bar business. I knew how to be, you know, uh, snap, uh. You know a street smart. I'm actually more excited about finishing the second book, the making of Billy the Liquor Guy. You know exactly, not a prequel, because I go deep into dark places that I was. When I had the PTSD. A lot of crazy shit went through my head, you know a lot of, and I wasn't not myself. And you know, after X amount of years I won't deny it that I thought about suicide. You know me, happy go, lucky, never thought I would even go, even think about that path, but I didn't care if I lived or died. You know, even when I continued to work.
Speaker 1:You, know for a little bit.
Speaker 3:I didn't care. You know so. But between education, between, yes, some drugs, but between therapy and between. You know, and I always remember this, tell this to everybody when I talk about PTSD. I said, listen, first of all, this is some nasty shit. I said, listen, I'm a pretty tough old guy. But this took me to my knees right in the book help. And I went on and you know I'm a happy-go-lucky guy Again. You know I have my moments. You know I get hit with some people said it. I go down the rabbit hole, I hit stuff that builds up. But I'll be honest, I got my little happy pills that I take. Then, of course me. I'm always competitive. I try not to take many. I took three in three months once, but I was a damaged old guy. My doctor said why are you afraid to take these? Because you feel better when you take them. Yeah.
Speaker 1:PTSD played a large role in Billy's life. After leaving his undercover role, however, with the help of therapy, medication and writing his book Under Too Long, he was able to regain a sense of normalcy that he felt he had lost.
Speaker 3:That's my story.
Speaker 2:We always recommend more bubbly and less OJ Cheers.
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