The Many Faces of True Crime

Could Gypsy Rose's early release and confessions crack open our understanding of her notorious past? This episode, Sierra and  Danica, traverse the intricate world of Gypsy Rose, dissecting her complex history and confessions post-incarceration. We're peeling back the layers on her alleged sexual abuse, pill addiction, and eyebrow-raising decision to tie the knot behind bars. The twists and turns of Gypsy's life are as bewildering as they are tragic, and we're here to sift through the implications of her freedom and the choices she's making now. We then dive into the cold realization of body parts found in a freezer and what that could mean for the previous owners of the home.

The narrative takes an eerie twist as we spotlight the baffling case of Natalia Grace and the Barnett family. Accusations swirl and certainties blur in this tale of alleged abandonment and deception. But that's not all—hold your mimosa steady as we field an unexpected phone call from Natalia's adoptive family, challenging the tales spun by TV screens. In a seamless shift, attention is turned towards Jackson, Mississippi, where the specter of unclaimed bodies in pauper's graves signals a deep failure in our systems, sparking a dialogue on what justice should truly entail.

To round out our foray into the darker corners of true crime, the bewildering abduction of Denise and the contentious police response are laid bare. Sierra and I dissect the initial doubts cast by law enforcement and the subsequent vindication of Denise and Aaron's ordeal. Our reflection on the case brings forward the vital discourse on the necessity of meticulous police work and the ripple effects of early misjudgments. We'll keep a vigilant eye on the unresolved and gut-wrenching issue of missing organs in prisoners, promising to bring even more harrowing truths to light in our relentless pursuit of clarity and accountability. Raise your glass to another episode of provocative investigations and join us as we chase down justice, one sip at a time.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Darkcast Network. Welcome to the dark side of podcasting.

Speaker 2: 0:05

Welcome to Murder and Mimosas, a true crime podcast brought to you by a mother and daughter duo.

Speaker 3: 0:13

Bringing you murder stories with Mimosas in hand.

Speaker 2: 0:18

Just a quick disclaimer before we get started. Our show is Murder and Mimosas. It's a true crime podcast. This means that we do discuss crimes including, but not limited to, disappearances, murder and sexual assault. All our episodes are told with the respect of the victims and the victims' families in mind. We strive to ensure that we provide factual information, with some information that is more verifiable than others. With that, grab your Mimosas and let's dive in. Welcome to this special segment of Murder and Mimosas. I'm Danica.

Speaker 3: 1:02

And.

Speaker 2: 1:03

I'm not Shannon, this is Sierra. I've kicked out my mother and brought in my sister for this segment that we will be doing. We are bringing you more current true crime news, what we have heard, what we have seen and our take on things. So if you are a true crime aficionado like me, then you have probably heard, seen ameem the show, an article whatever about Gypsy Rose and her release from prison, as well as her confessions from prison before her release. So if you haven't seen it spoilers you may want to skip forward, but I found it to be really interesting. Some of it was stuff we already knew right Abused medically by her mom, emotionally I wasn't aware of the alleged I don't have to say alleged because she's not being charged sexual abuse by her grandfather when she was younger, and that really broke me because you know the way she talks about him.

Speaker 2: 2:14

That was the one person outside her mom that she had to spend time with. He knew, like the wheelchair thing wasn't real and so she's lost a lot of trust in her mom. And now she's lost a lot of trust in her grandfather because he's taken advantage of her Allegedly and you know it has to be really hard for a kid. Some people I've seen are on the fence and, whether they not, they believe this. They did straight up just ask the grandfather on the show about the claims and the way he answered. Obviously he denied it because he's not going to say on TV oh yeah, no, I definitely molested my granddaughter, but the way he responded definitely made me feel like he did it, because instead of just saying no, he like put it back on her. So he was like no, she was always at the kid trying to touch me down there and I'd have to tell her that's not just that. Yeah, I don't know any little girl who's like trying to touch her grandfather in appropriate places that hasn't been abused and so, and her mom did not let her out of her sight. So I don't feel like there's a lot of options and it was just the way he like was instant, with no she, it was her, she tried to do it and I'm like I don't know, you're too quick on the pivot there. Like that seemed like a lot of prediction.

Speaker 2: 3:44

So personally for me I believe Gypsy there I was really sad to hear a lot of the things that happened to her. I didn't realize that she had become addicted to pills, but also like that totally makes sense, right? Her mom shoving pills down her throat all the time. I could see how she would end up with an addiction, because they're not. If you don't have pain and you're just taking pain medication, you're getting high, right? And so that's what her mom was doing to her, and I'm sure that also made her a lot more submissive to her mother and able to control if she's, you know, not in the right state of mind.

Speaker 2: 4:24

The only thing that I was really really frustrated with was her getting married and not to say that Gypsy doesn't deserve happiness. But you went from like a prison of your mother right, you weren't allowed to have friends, you weren't around to be a normal child To literally going to a prison, like you're still really young. Why wouldn't you come out of prison and learn how to be yourself first, how to date outside of prison walls, before jumping into a marriage? But like she needs some extensive therapy before she has a long term relationship that's supposed to last forever. And this wasn't even the first time she'd been engaged while she was in prison. She had a whole other engagement, and she talks about it in the show, right? But one thing that doesn't add up for me is she talks about that engagement ending because she was still very young and very naive. Okay, but you haven't left the prison, so how much more Talk about being young and naive in relationships?

Speaker 3: 5:32

There's not much life experience, relationship experience, going on.

Speaker 2: 5:38

Yeah, in prison, I mean you're not getting what it's like to date outside of the walls. You don't know what it's like to live with a person you don't know. I mean, you see this guy and I get that. You have phone calls and you have, you know letters and things like that, but you don't know if you hate the way this guy brushes his teeth because you've never seen him do it. Maybe he says after every time he takes a drink. That would make me crazy. Like you don't know those quirks because you don't get to see him outside of prison and you haven't even got to become your own person. You have been controlled by your mother and then by the state and the penitentiary, and now you are connecting yourself to a whole other human being. You've never just been you, so I don't know.

Speaker 3: 6:23

Well, it's definitely safe to say her story is far from over.

Speaker 2: 6:27

True.

Speaker 3: 6:28

We will be hearing a lot more about her. I think I'm about done with tips and rules for a little while, I see her everywhere I look.

Speaker 2: 6:36

Well, it doesn't help that she's very active considering on social media.

Speaker 3: 6:40

Immediately.

Speaker 2: 6:42

Oh yeah, tiktoks, I follow her TikTok page because it's just what it's your ground person does, but I've watched very few because I just like, okay, I get it Like I've watched your whole thing. What are you going to tell me that I don't know.

Speaker 3: 6:57

Right. I think she's just trying to have a little bit of a normal life on TikTok, but then everybody just wants to talk about her story.

Speaker 2: 7:06

I really think, if she is going to thrive in the real world, that the social media off the bat was a mistake.

Speaker 3: 7:15

I agree, yeah.

Speaker 2: 7:18

Well, what do you have that's going on in current event? True crime that you can fill a sit on?

Speaker 3: 7:25

Well, I've been looking into this severed head and hands found in a freezer in Grand Junction, colorado, so the sheriff's office hasn't really released much. Most of this is coming from neighbors and just.

Speaker 2: 7:47

Some conjecture and speculation?

Speaker 3: 7:49

Yeah, totally just true crime fanatics looking into tax records. That's certificate. I also looked up the previous owner's certificate, but anyways, so this house was owned since 2006 by this couple, and what people believe to be their younger son and younger male that lived in the house with them.

Speaker 3: 8:13

The dad passed away in 2021 to COVID, so the neighbors claim not long after he passed away, the mom and supposed son go into the house, clean up personal items, leave a ton of stuff. They were reported quarters the entire time they lived there. So there's pictures post of the property. You can see the crazy amounts of things that were just everywhere on this property.

Speaker 2: 8:43

I wonder if he was a hoarder, then if they just went in and got a few things because it's hard, Because they didn't care about it.

Speaker 2: 8:48

Right because, especially I've watched a lot of hoarders and a lot of it is trauma based, like something traumatic has happened and now they hoard. Obviously losing a family member would be traumatic, especially during COVID, because that was traumatic anyway. So I think if either the mother or the supposed son had that tendency, they probably would have taken one more, unless where their ads are already hoarding, and they would have wanted to stay in their space with their things, because that's why they like to surround them through themselves Especially after he died, because I see a lot of that where they hoard things from the year that person died or anything that reminds them of that person.

Speaker 2: 9:23

So I see that a lot. On hoarders, I could see where they would want to go back if they had the hoarding tendencies.

Speaker 3: 9:30

So the house was sold to, I guess, like a house flipper. So they had posted online for people to come and hallway junk for free so they could have a good way to clean out your property. Yeah or like come get what? You want scrap metal, some things of value, whatever. So there was a working freezer there.

Speaker 2: 9:53

It's like a deep freezer.

Speaker 3: 9:55

Yes, and these people wanted to open it up. There's still stuff inside of it, so I'm assuming everybody keeps reporting the head was still frozen and there was no smell or anything. I'm assuming the power has been on this entire time. I'm not really sure who's keeping the power on, because that seems like a weird thing to do if you abandon your own. But so they go clean out the freezer and a head is found in the freezer. Later, after they call the cops, they come out there and the sheriff office also reports that there is a pair of hands in this freezer.

Speaker 3: 10:37

So, dan, could you tell me why? Maybe you would take a head, and also their hands.

Speaker 2: 10:43

So in my experience during the podcast, those are generally the two things that are taken if you want to try to avoid the person being identified. Because if their DNA is not in the system which is rare, unless they're like a criminal or something like that then they can't use their face to identify them and they can't use their hands or fingerprints. So unless this person had some very obvious tattoos, scars or birth marks, then there would be nothing to identify. The torso and legs.

Speaker 3: 11:14

I agree. So, like I said, the sheriff's office hasn't reported much about this. It's, of course, the ongoing investigation. The person has yet to be identified, but I got to start with your theory. Yes. Go for it the dad that passed away from COVID, because I'm just saying, if I'm abandoning my house, I'm not leaving the evidence there.

Speaker 1: 11:42

Right.

Speaker 3: 11:42

To be found Like somebody's going to come into this property at some point. So that's my first theory.

Speaker 2: 11:51

Yes, he did it and of course he didn't have time to rid himself of these extra body parts in the freezer, and his wife and baby son didn't know they were there.

Speaker 3: 12:04

Yeah, he fell ill quickly and probably did know he was going to pass or just could not dispose of that Physically.

Speaker 2: 12:15

Yeah, and what are you going to do on your death bed until your wife and son? Please get rid of the head and the hands and the freezer.

Speaker 3: 12:21

Right, so there, no-transcript. They're getting their stuff and they're getting all that house and I say, oh, let's take the stuff in the freezer.

Speaker 2: 12:30

Right. Yeah, they are obviously like restricting. They just want to get what they need.

Speaker 3: 12:36

Yeah, that's where my fridge is, because the life or the sun I feel like with dispose of it, but it could be a local and it was abandoned house.

Speaker 2: 12:46

But like to know there's a freezer, to know the power still on, to know all of these things is odd and it makes me wonder and I know it's going to be really hard because it's been frozen, so it's hard to know. How long has it been there? No, has it been there since 2021, or has this been a more recent thing? I'm also curious if there have been any bodies found missing ahead and hands between 2021, and why just before that? Because who knows if the dad was the one who did it? When he did it, it's been over years, right, so I mean, you'd have to go back a long time to see if there was a body that was found with no hand, and no hands that might would fit this person. Why have the sheriff released anything, as far as it was a male or female ethnicity, anything?

Speaker 3: 13:44

No, dave, I've just confirmed that was in fact the human skull, head and hands. Here's how reported seeing them go back in to look with black lives or what they assume to be blood, and that they have also removed.

Speaker 2: 14:02

the sheriff's office has removed additional items from this house, but there's no telling what items have been removed from the public at this point what items have been removed by the family when they moved out and did the murder even happen in the house, right, it seems unlikely that the family would take something related to this murder and then leave body parts. Probably they didn't take anything of investigative value.

Speaker 3: 14:32

We'll take the evidence but not the actual body.

Speaker 2: 14:37

So I would say that they probably didn't take anything, at least not anything that they realized was investigative value for the police. The public has come in and taken lots of things just to take them, because the house was open for people to empty it out. Who knows what could have been a value and is now gone. Anything else with that.

Speaker 3: 15:07

No, I'm sure there'll be a lot more to come.

Speaker 2: 15:10

We'll keep up and keep an eye on that and see what we can find out. So we talked about Gypsy Rose. Let's talk about the other big thing on TV Natalia Grace and Michael Barnett. Then Natalia Grace started right before the end of the year and it progressed in the series to more being released at the beginning of the year, and I wish I could tell you what I think about that whole thing. Here is what I know after watching this series. I know that when the Barnetts had Natalia re-aged and put her in an apartment on her own, she was in fact nine years old, she was a child, she was not an adult and that is neglect. What I don't know is pretty much anything else.

Speaker 2: 16:04

Michael Barnett is the only time I think I've ever watched anything true crime related and laughed, not because of what he said, but just his demeanor and his. He almost acts like he's acting on Broadway. He's just so flamboyant, but you know what I mean. Just very out there and I don't know if it's because of that or because he's able to just work these tears all the time. Whatever it is, I don't believe anything that comes out of his mouth and it made me almost want to throw something at my TV when he and Natalia are sitting there talking about Christie, just like physically abusing Natalia. Michael watched and she's like why didn't you do anything? And he's like I was a victim too. I just wish I was. She was a child. Like okay, you're too scared to talk to the police because that's abuse. Like not think and here's the thing, I don't think that their children, their boys, are better off with Christie, but also, who knows if they're speaking to their mother. I also understand why they don't speak to their father, because he allowed this to happen and did nothing, absolutely nothing. And that blows my mind.

Speaker 2: 17:30

I am curious, probably like everybody else, about the whole bombshell that was dropped at the end of the series, with her adoptive family calling and saying some things. Obviously it's TV, so who knows how much of that was like chopped and Right, chopped up, edited put together, but still I don't know. I just get a feeling that there's something more. I have looked on some crime sites and trying to get other people's theories and someone posted a link to the family, one of the parents' Facebook pages, and since then it looks like they're all this one big, happy family, which makes me even more curious. I know it is a curious case. It does definitely make me curious as to how much of that phone call was edited. Was this just a moment where they were having a fight and someone got petty and made a phone call? Like I'm just. That whole thing is interesting to me.

Speaker 2: 18:33

But I do feel for Natalia because she's very clearly was abused and neglected by the Barnett and that is heartbreaking, because no nine-year-old should ever have to live on their own like that and be subjected to what she was subjected to. Expected at nine-years-old to be a full-blown adult is insane. And in hindsight, because when I watched it first before Michael's part, before they confirmed that Natalia was in fact a child, I did have some reservations about Natalia because of the way that her neighbors talked about her, the way that people. But then when you realize she's nine, of course she doesn't have common courtesy because she hasn't been taught that she's nine-years-old and she hasn't been taught what that is. She doesn't have boundaries. She doesn't understand that you can't just walk into someone's house if you know them.

Speaker 3: 19:28

She was acting out as a child in an abusive situation.

Speaker 2: 19:35

But also I understand that as her neighbors they're under the impression that she's an adult and she has dwarfism and so if you're in that situation and that's the understanding that you have about the situation you probably are like this person's weird and this makes me uncomfortable. But, like at one point one neighbor is telling me how weird it was that she kept wanting to play with her son. She was nine. Of course she wants to play, but if you think of her as a 22-year-old adult, it's weird. So I can see it from both sides. But I just feel for Natalia in that situation because that was just something no child should ever have to go through. All right, you've got something else for us that you have found that's pretty recent. What do you got next?

Speaker 3: 20:24

Yes, this case takes place in Jackson Mississippi. I'm sure a lot of people have heard about this. I have been so just I've been digging into this way too much probably. My boss is probably wondering if I'm going to do my job tomorrow. But so the Poppers Graveyard in Jackson Mississippi.

Speaker 1: 20:48

Hello, my name is DJ and I'm the host of the Mythical True Crime podcast Growing me and the Darkcast network of indie podcast creators, as we delve into the mysterious and the macabre, exploring captivating tales of true crime legends and unsolved mysteries from the realms of mythology and reality. Uncover the dark, true tales of modern legends with our spoken narratives that blend history, crime and the supernatural. Just starting season three, you can listen to the newest episodes every other week, as well as all my backlog episodes on anywhere you can listen to your podcasts.

Speaker 3: 21:34

Okay, so in Jackson Mississippi, the Poppers Grave, it started out 215 bodies. The count is now up to 672 bodies. That dates back to at least 2008. Okay so have you heard about this?

Speaker 2: 21:51

I've heard a little bit, but can you explain a little bit more? Because I've just seen an article but I haven't had the time to really dig it and read, like I know you've had that chance so far.

Speaker 3: 21:59

So the Poppers Graveyard is the poorest bodies that were unclaimed, unidentified or families that just didn't have the might to bury their family. So it seems like Jackson Mississippi there's three confirmed cases of them not even trying to reach out to these families to inform them that their family members have passed. They've all said if I knew I would have gotten a family member, I would have had a funeral, we would have had a proper burial. I think there's probably a lot more to come from that list.

Speaker 3: 22:43

Like I said, it's all a handwritten log Erica of all of these people the log all it has on there is the person's name, age, race, gender and date of birth.

Speaker 2: 22:57

That's a lot of work for police to cross-reference all of that. So where do these bodies come from, I guess where do these people come from that they're burying?

Speaker 3: 23:07

Well, I think a lot of that is to come. So the one that has kind of opened this all up to the public would be Dexter Wade. He was hit by a police officer. Some reports he was off duty, some reports that he was hit and why he was in a police car, which it could have been traveling home to work. I don't know the specifics. I've heard it said both ways. Either way it was a police officer hit and killed him and they buried him in this graveyard. His mother had followed a police report from the anchor.

Speaker 2: 23:49

A missing persons report.

Speaker 3: 23:50

Yes, a missing persons report for him, with the Sam Sharers office that said, oh, we don't know where he is when there are police officers, the one that hit and killed him.

Speaker 2: 24:01

That sounds like a major coverup, which makes me wonder what else is going to be to come from Jackson Mississippi to proper grave. How many more of these are police brutality cases or something has gone wrong and the police have done something and now they're covering it up by burying them in this proper grave?

Speaker 3: 24:24

Well, the mother is reported that she called multiple times. She checked on her son. They reported they don't know where he is. They don't know what happened. They're still looking. Of course they're looking very hard for him. Come to find out. The missing persons report had the wrong name on it. They had misphoned his name for one. Did they really care?

Speaker 2: 24:48

No, clearly not.

Speaker 3: 24:50

Anyways. So then the mother has a civil rights attorney, ben Crump. He is representing Wade's mother the other person we're about to discuss representing her and one other individual, but he's asking for anybody in Jackson Mississippi that has missing family to come forward because they want to identify the people on this list, how they got there and where the family is notified. How many people on this list are on missing persons list out there?

Speaker 2: 25:21

Okay, my question. I'm not sure if you have the answer, since it's all still coming to light how did she end up finding out that her son was buried in this proper grave? I mean, she's under the assumption he's a missing person. So do you know how those dots were connected for her to be made aware?

Speaker 3: 25:43

Okay, so from my understanding is somebody told the mother to call the coroner's office and he's the one that informed the mother of his passing and said that he had told law enforcement of his passing and that he had had the proper swear word because he was never claimed but it was clearly because she never knew.

Speaker 2: 26:08

Right, she wasn't notified. She can't claim the body. That makes sense. You said there are some others that were part of this. Yes another one that.

Speaker 3: 26:18

I have looked into is Johnson Hankins he. I'm not going to speak on how he passed away because it hasn't ever really became clear, but it says he was found by authorities deceased. The mother had also filed a missing person report for him, they claim they don't know where he is, but they will look for him. Well. So the quarter's office originally stated that they also did not know where he was supposedly found out. He was actually in this graveyard when they dug him up Danca his wallet with his ID was in his pocket, with his credit cards, with his driver's license.

Speaker 3: 27:10

It could not have been this hard to track down this man's name.

Speaker 2: 27:14

Right, and you said in this handwritten log that these people's names and date of birth were written down.

Speaker 3: 27:22

Correct and pieces of this log have been released to public and people have already begun connecting these names to people with this With.

Speaker 4: 27:38

In a world where the ordinary meets the extraordinary. Prepare the journey beyond the veil of reality to uncover secrets that defy explanation. Welcome to a Dead Letter podcast where we delve into the mysterious and unexplained phenomena that have fascinated humans for centuries. In each episode, we will explore some of the most intriguing and spying-tinkling aspects of the paranormal world. But beware, for the line between reality and the supernatural is thinner than you think. Will you dare to listen?

Speaker 3: 28:13

They have already begun connecting the names on this logbook to other missing person reports in the area.

Speaker 2: 28:25

So we've got Dexter and we've got Jonathan. Are there any others that have come up that you have been able to find?

Speaker 3: 28:33

as they're connecting these, yeah, there's another name that's came up, mario Moore. His parents have came forward. His mother is saying she was also never notified of her son passing and that she would have also, of course, provided a funeral for some soul. Yeah, a burial, whatever. How are their families? We'd like to go forward with that. I also heard that the state or the city county is trying to charge all of these families to get their family members back.

Speaker 2: 29:09

That is some shady stuff, because they weren't notified to begin with. I feel like the only way that they should be able to charge them is if they can provide proof and documentation that the family was notified.

Speaker 3: 29:21

I agree, we're the phone records, because Jonathan's mom also said she called up there so many times about her son. All of these mothers have it on. I'm sure there's more that are going to come forward. And not to mention, there was no caskets. There were no actual graves. There were shallow graves with bodies in a body bag.

Speaker 2: 29:45

What are you paying for labor? I'll go dig them up myself.

Speaker 3: 29:48

They were all just numbered. There was no names, no, nothing.

Speaker 2: 29:51

It was just metal stakes with just a small little numbered tag on them and I guarantee you that's what they want to pay someone for the labor because they screwed up again and again and again. You know what would pay for that Firing some of the people who let this happen.

Speaker 3: 30:11

I'm not sure about this, but I have also seen that we all know this graveyard was behind the jail, that inmates were the ones digging these shallow graves.

Speaker 2: 30:21

Okay, so the tax payers are already paying for it then. So I don't understand what they want, these families.

Speaker 3: 30:29

I think we dig it all up because we have to find out how many people are actually there, because I don't trust your handwritten logbook for one.

Speaker 2: 30:38

I don't trust anything.

Speaker 3: 30:40

And how do we know there's not way more people buried out there Because they were like. I don't really feel like doing all of this today.

Speaker 2: 30:47

Yeah, screw paperwork Two for one. Dig that one and dig another one. I'm just gonna throw this guy in there too.

Speaker 3: 30:55

Yeah because that's what they're saying. Well, have we?

Speaker 2: 30:57

dug a little bit deeper. What's there's?

Speaker 3: 30:59

another body behind underneath that body.

Speaker 2: 31:01

It's true.

Speaker 3: 31:03

The whole area has to be searched and dug up.

Speaker 2: 31:05

Yeah, it needs to be completely just from the start and there needs to be a thorough internal investigation into the people running it. Yeah, because for a spokesperson which I did read because I was curious saying that there was no malice towards the family, no ill intent, that it was just miscommunication. 600 miscommunications is not miscommunication, that is just Nope. Somebody's not doing their job or somebody's not doing their job. It's lazy.

Speaker 3: 31:40

Right, which I don't know. If this whole thing actually started out with corruption and stuff there, I'm sure were actual unclaimed bodies in there. That does happen, yeah no, I agree. Clearly, somewhere along the lawn they said well, this is easier and it's worked this time. And then, oh, it's been a year and it worked, and then you get a little more and you get a little deeper, and you get a little deeper, and now we're here.

Speaker 2: 32:08

Yeah, but I am interested to see how many more of these end up being people who had miscemer persons report. One thing I can say for Jackson Mississippi is that county is going to have a very high missing persons closure rate at the rate that they're going with this poppers grave, because it sounds like a lot of the people who are out there were missing persons. So I guess kudos to them for, and somebody's probably going to get a bonus for that. You know that. Yeah, that makes me angry. Anyway, use that bonus to pay the families to dig the graves of their loved ones up so they can give them a proper burial.

Speaker 3: 32:52

Well, I think the county will probably be paying them a lot more than what they'd be.

Speaker 2: 32:56

Yeah, it almost cracks me up. They're like we're going to charge you and I'll be like that's fine, I'm going to sue you anyway, I'll give my money back, exactly.

Speaker 3: 33:03

Because I don't think they're going to be able to come up with any clue, probably just more corruption and things that they can't memorize Exactly All right.

Speaker 2: 33:14

The other thing that I've seen a lot of people watching true crime related is the show on Netflix, american Nightmare, which, going into it, is not at all what I thought I kept seeing people be like. This is the real life, gone girl, which in gone girl, she like faked her own kidnapping right. This was not that, because while the whole story does sound absolutely insane when you're listening to, it, truly happened. Again, spoilers Well, I mean at this point I already spoiled it, but spoilers anyway. But so Denise goes missing. She's been kidnapped from her boyfriend's house and, of course, in the mind of every true crime person and in the police. When it happens, he calls the police, he's being interviewed and everyone probably assumes like he had something to do with it because the story sounds wild, like I've never even read a fiction book. That was just bizarre as the story he's telling the police and I won't tell you the whole story if you want to listen to it, but it was pretty out there and when I was listening to it before I knew what came next. I'm there going, you're full of it because like nobody doesn't know real. Well, then Denise is found, and not really found, as she's just like, dropped off in front of her parents' house, 400 miles away from where she was abducted. Okay, so at this point police are like and her story is equally, if not more, bizarre than the story Aaron told about the abduction and her time in captivity. It all sounds insane. And so the police straight up, before really doing any investigation, before they even allow her to come back to her home, her boyfriend's house, the town she was in before she got abducted, they're offering her an immunity deal because they already don't believe her. And they're like if you come back like we'll offer you this deal, we won't, you'll have immunity and you can flip on Aaron and she's a victim. Okay.

Speaker 2: 35:32

So further in, they talked to the guy who actually did abduct her, and this guy is. I can understand after listening to his stories, how their stories ended up being so bizarre. His guy is bizarre, thinks he does is bizarre. At one point he's talking about the fact that previous to Denise's kidnapping, he had broken in and was going to rape this woman. And she starts crying and talking about how she's going to be raped for the second time in her life and he was like oh no, I mean, I'm not going to victimize you again.

Speaker 2: 36:14

I probably like it leaves because she's been raped before and then another time he breaks in like ziptizes the girl's hands together and he uses swim goggles and he's like blacked out, that's what he uses, which is weird. And, of course, when Aaron was telling the police that and that this guy put headphones on him to like block out the sound, and at one point Aaron was like cold during this time when Denise is being abducted, and he's like can I have a blanket? And I was like, ah yeah, my bad, you know, like I didn't even think about how cold it was because I'm in a wetsuit. Of course Aaron's telling the police this and the police are like what kind of weirdo breaks in in a wetsuit? Like that doesn't even sound legit. This guy's got swim goggles and a wetsuit.

Speaker 3: 37:02

And at one point, I and also he was watching from my good side and goes oh, I'm kind of chilly, can I have a blanket?

Speaker 2: 37:08

But he wasn't watching. Like he was down, face down. The guy had already put him face down, put these goggles on. He was also on sedatives at this point, so he's like not all there, but he's shivering, probably out of fear, but also because he was cold.

Speaker 2: 37:21

And so he's like yeah, I feel like I have a blanket. That part I can understand as the police. They're probably like that was your worry at that moment. But also he didn't know it was happening. He didn't know that Denise was being abducted because he can't see anything and so he's tied up. He can't see, he can't really hear anything because he's got these headphones that have a recorded message that this guy's like is playing from his phone and the guy has him drink this Nyquil drug-induced concoction. And see the faces you're making to me right now are the faces that the cop is like. You are so full of it like none of that shit.

Speaker 2: 38:05

And if there was no sign of a break-in, because the cop was like, how did he get in? And he's like I don't know. And he's like, did he break down the front? No, did he break down the back? No, did he swim in in his wetsuit? And I almost laughed then because I was like, all right, that was a little petty, but I get what he's coming from. But the guy who did it was just odd, but he was also extremely smart. He was a Harvard graduate and I don't know how you go from that to this weird thing.

Speaker 3: 38:36

What's the doctor?

Speaker 2: 38:38

Yeah, but like, sometimes you rape him, sometimes you don't.

Speaker 2: 38:42

He's like this.

Speaker 2: 38:43

He talked about a second time where he'd gone in and he'd tied the girl up and he said on the edge of the bed and after a while I was like I just can't do this and left, like his plan was to rape her, but he just wasn't feeling it in that moment and he did rape Denise twice because he told her that he had to have some sort of collateral, that she wouldn't talk to the police, and so he recorded it, or at least he told her he recorded it. That way if she went to the police he would release the tape on the internet, which doesn't really make sense to me because he's also in the sed tape. So I don't know how that's collateral, so much as just outing yourself. But of course, in a moment like that, when you're tied up you've been in captivity Denise is obviously scared. The second time he raped her he told her that it had to look more consensual, like they were lovers having an affair, and I guess that was to make it look real instead of like he was just raping her.

Speaker 2: 39:43

I don't know, that was weird and so the whole thing is weird, but imagine as a police officer hearing these stories and being like y'all are just making all sorts what kind of drugs you want. You can have such a vivid imagination, but the thing that frustrated me was they didn't even bother to look into anything before coming onto national TV in a press release and calling them both liars, calling Aaron and Denise both liars, and from what I understand, denise and Aaron are suing them because for defamation, because they weren't lying and it came out later that they weren't. They found the guy but they just straight up, they didn't bother to look into it. They were just like liar, liar pants on fire on TV in front of everybody, and that anyway, it was interesting but definitely worth the watch. Did you have anything else? You had our head in our hands. Not our head in our hands, but head and hands in a freezer, and then we have the poppers grave. Any other crazy things lately.

Speaker 3: 40:54

Well, I do have a few, but we might have to save those for the next episode. I definitely think everybody should join us on our Facebook page and we didn't talk about this stuff, so I definitely saw more to say. There's more coming out.

Speaker 2: 41:10

Yes, and we will start doing this segment weekly for at least the next few months. So if it's something you like, let us know. We want to be able to provide this, but we wanted to give you guys some more current news. I know not everybody gets to dig and dive as much as we do, and sometimes you want to know if there are holes even worth the dive. So we'll bring you the latest and what everybody's watching true crime, wise and the crazy things happening in the world, like poppers, graves and frozen body parts. Next time.

Speaker 3: 41:45

I'm going to talk about the missing organs that are missing from prisoners being returned to their families after they pass away in prison. So that will be some long going to live a little more into and I'm sure we'll have a lot more exciting stuff. I'm sure crazier things will happen in this world before we record again.

Speaker 2: 42:07

Yes, so stay tuned and we'll see you next week. We always recommend more bubbly and less OJ Cheers. If you'd like to see pictures from today's episode, you can find us at murdermamosas on Instagram. You can also find us at murdermamosas on Tiktok Twitter, and if you have a case you would like us to do, you can send that to murdermamosas at Ginocom. And, lastly, we are on Facebook at Murder and Mamosas podcast, where you can interact with us there. We love any type of feedback you can give us, so please write your views on Spotify, itunes or wherever you listen to your podcast.