Bonnie Garland/ A Shattered Silence in Scarsdale

Imagine the shockwaves that ripple through an idyllic town when the unthinkable shatters its calm—a young, promising life cut short in a place where crime is as rare as a misstep on the social ladder. That's the backdrop of today's episode, as we recount the haunting murder of Yale student Bonnie Garland, whose affluent upbringing in Scarsdale was violently upended one July night in 1977. The facade of wealth and academics crumbles as I, your host, unravel the intricate web of her relationship with Richard Herron, a love story marred by obsession and darkness.

Today's narrative takes us into Bonnie's vibrant life and the uphill battle of young love strained by distance and growth. You'll hear about Bonnie's remarkable spirit at Yale, her choir performances, and the voice lessons that were her passion, all while her relationship with Richard teetered on a precipice. Letters from Richard, filled with increasing obsession, are a prelude to heartbreak and set the stage for a confession that stunned everyone. I'll guide you through every complex emotion and the fateful choices that led to a crime which echoes through Scarsdale's history.

As we raise our glasses in a toast to truth and remembrance, we ponder the aftermath of this tragedy and the question of justice. The debate rages on: was the outcome fair for Bonnie and her family? I'll take you through Richard's unexpected life post-conviction, the surprising community support he received, and the $40,000 judgment that may never have found its way to the Garland family. And as we wrap up this gripping tale, remember to follow us on social media for a visual journey through the case, and join our Facebook community to share your thoughts. 

Sources: 
https://www.scarsdalenews.com/obituaries/joan-garland/article_21d58b54-f51b-11e9-8bec-13e6bfa7caa1.html

https://www.scarsdale.com/268/History-of-Scarsdale#:~:text=After%20World%20War%20II%2C%20significant,access%20to%20New%20York%20City.

https://news.yale.edu/2023/02/03/yale-announces-2023-24-term-bill-reaffirms-financial-aid-commitments

https://www.madeira.org/

https://www.crimelibrary.org/notorious_murders/not_guilty/bonnie_garland_herri/14.html

https://www.nytimes.com/1978/05/07/archives/a-fatal-romance-at-yale-murder.html

https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=8ZNGAAAAIBAJ&sjid=DvgMAAAAIBAJ&pg=2826%2C1620999

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Darkcast Network. Welcome to the dark side of podcasting.

Speaker 2: 0:05

Welcome to Murder and Mimosas, a true crime podcast brought to you by a mother and daughter duo Bringing you murder stories with Mimosas in hand. Just a quick disclaimer before we get started. Our show is Murder and Mimosas. It's a true crime podcast. This means that we do discuss crimes, including, but not limited to, disappearances, murder and sexual assault. All our episodes are told with the respect of the victims and the victims' family even mind. We strive to ensure that we provide factual information, with some information that is more verifiable than others. With that, grab your Mimosas and let's dive in. Welcome to Murder and Mimosas. I'm Danica, and well, it's just me today. Shannon is sick and we've been snowed in, so I'm gonna go solo on this one. Today I'm going to be telling you the story of Bonnie Garland. So grab your Mimosas, you sip. Well, I share. So imagine it.

Speaker 2: 1:18

Warm summer morning, july 7, 1977. The police pull up to this beautiful home in Skarsdale, new York. This is a very affluent neighborhood. In fact, skarsdale is one of the wealthiest towns in the US. The garlands are no different. They have a large three-story tutor-style home and it also includes a basement. The police bring the doorbell that morning and Joe and Garland answers the door, obviously stunned to see police standing there. They ask if her 20-year-old daughter, bonnie's home. She ascends up the stairs yelling her daughter's name as the police are following closely on her heels. She is so shocked by what she sees when she opens the door to her daughter's room. Her daughter is lying naked in the bed covered in blood and gasping for air. A clawed hammer lay next to her left ear. There's this gaping hole in her skull. There's just blood splatter everywhere on her body, all over the room. The police move her mother aside and get Bonnie to the emergency room where she unfortunately later died that night due to her wounds.

Speaker 2: 2:30

How did the police know about this? Right, and the garlands had no clue that this happened right beneath their noses. We are about to get into all of that and more. Like I said, this was a high crime area and after this murder there wasn't another murder there for 40 years. So maybe the police here are ill-equipped at the process when it comes to murder. We will get into how they arrived there later and I feel like it should have been handled differently. But you know what they say about hindsight Always 20-20. So let's start with the garlands. Paul and Joanne had obviously done well for themselves. But Paul himself didn't come from a wealthy family. He had earned everything he had. He was given a scholarship to Yale University where he graduated summa cum laude. He went on to Harvard Law School and he got a law degree. Joanne had graduated from Lawrence University and then got her master's in human genetics. In the 70s she went on to earn a PhD in psychology from Columbia University.

Speaker 2: 3:35

The garlands lived in Brazil until 1971, when they had returned back to the United States. The family is very involved in the Catholic Church and this is where Bonnie learned to speak Spanish. She actually was fluent in four total languages. When they returned, they enrolled Bonnie into this exclusive Madeira boarding school that was in Virginia. And of course this all sounds like a fairy tale, right Like the American dreams of rags to riches. Well, of course, until their daughter was murdered, and I can't even imagine how much it would have to cost to send your daughter to boarding school. But I do know that that same school now it's $69,500 for tuition and it also covers meals plus room and board. And this was an all-girl school. But see, bonnie wasn't their only child. They also had an older son and a younger daughter as well as a younger son, so they're paying a ton of money for their kids' private schooling, but, of course, with everything they've accomplished, it seems pretty clear that education is really important for this couple. And, of course, if you can afford it, I guess, go for it.

Speaker 2: 4:53

Well, bonnie began yell at only 17 in 1974. Let's face it, she was made for a school like this. She fit right in. She did great. She always had a love for music, so she ended up joining the Yale Blee Club and then joined a band called Plum of the Pudding, and she's just living her best life. It's truly enjoying college and the entire experience. But her second semester didn't go as well. She began seeing a guy by the name of Richard Herron.

Speaker 2: 5:25

So Richard was a senior at Yale that year, and he had come from a completely different background upbringing than Bonnie. So his mother was of Mexican descent, his father was Irish, and he grew up in a single parent household because his father left when he was just three years old. He grew up in Los Angeles, and not really in the best area of town, and he didn't have the finer things in life like Bonnie did. What he did have, though, was determination. He was super athletic. He played football and baseball. He was part of the student government. He finished first in his graduating class at Abraham Lincoln High School and he was also in the seven o'clock mass with his mother every Sunday morning. He had applied to many colleges and was accepted, but Yale was the only one that offered him a full scholarship and, of course, while this is not only really impressive, it's kind of a no-brainer on where to go because college is expensive. So you know, he doesn't really have a lot of options if he's given this scholarship and he doesn't come from money.

Speaker 2: 6:42

While Richard excelled in high school, he was not doing as well in college. He's just barely making it. His grades are poor. He's not really involved in college like he was in high school, so he's not really like an all-American once he is among these more elite people and that's kind of my take on it Until, of course, he meets Bonnie. So the two of them meet in November of 1974.

Speaker 2: 7:10

Richard and a friend of his were walking home after watching a Beatles movie. The two of them decided to recreate a scene from Let it Be and they're just singing from the top of the roof of Saberick College. Bonnie is out with her friends and they're walking by and decide that they should join them in the singing. So Bonnie and Richard began singing together, I guess like a maybe a little duet type of thing, and in my mind I'm picturing like every episode of 80s show where they do a musical number which would be like totally at my dad's alley because they just like literally in real life it's a broke out into song and then people join. So some say like Sparks just began to fly as they were singing and kind of from that day forward they were pretty much inseparable.

Speaker 2: 8:01

But let's talk about her dating life before that, because we know she went to an all girl school, but that doesn't necessarily mean that she didn't have any relationships. But Richard was first like her, first like truly official boyfriend. And looking into Richard's background for his dating life, he didn't really have any like official girlfriends in his past either. He had dated some but it didn't really pan out. I know they're still young so this isn't a big surprise, but they both have this like Oogooie feeling for each other. You know, this is the best thing in the world, really, like the infatuation is on 10 for them both and they want to spend all of their time together and that means even ditching class to do so.

Speaker 2: 8:48

So, being with Richard, bonnie's grades really started to suffer and we know Richard's grades were already suffering because he'd been just like sliding by since he'd gotten to Yale. Of course I don't want to blame her grades and all this on Richard. Like there are a ton of college kids that get there and they don't do well with their newfound freedom and they flunk out or they bomb a semester or two. You know it's like a whole new world and from the sounds of it she had a really structured life, didn't really have a ton of freedom, so it could have something to do with it as well. But she brings Richard home for spring break and her parents aren't like really fans of his. Her father said quote he was slovenly in appearance, slovenly in manners, difficult to talk to and physically unattractive. End quote.

Speaker 2: 9:41

So tell us how you really feel, paul, about Paul. Tell us how you really feel Paul about Richard, because we didn't get it. But you also have to think like this is the 70s and most guys did kind of have like that sloppy look, especially compared to like the older generations, and he probably wasn't. You know what Bonnie's dad was like hoping for for his daughter, but I mean at the same time, like her boyfriend's in Yale, he worked really hard to get there. But dads are sometimes tough and I don't think Paul was like up to his standards. But we have to remember that Paul came from a poor family and he's only at Yale because he's on a scholarship. You know, paul was raised in a different era, where men dressed in a suit do the mailbox and back where the 70s is like this hippie era peace, love and joy. Like they just come from two different generations, eras, however you want to explain that, but they're just different. They have different ideals. But no matter what they felt about Richard, I think they kind of kept it like just between them and just kind of hoped and prayed like this was just a phase and they knew Richard is going to graduate in May and he would be moving on, or I'm sure, like they're hoping he'll be moving on.

Speaker 2: 11:06

Bonnie, though, she gets through her first year at Yale. Richard of course graduates, but he wants to go to graduate school and he gets in at Texas Christian University and he heads off to Texas. Bonnie moves with him but her parents have no clue that she's living in Texas, and I get you don't want to disappoint your parents, but also she's an adult. She should have just told them so they aren't wasting their money on Yale because they don't know that she's not there. Not only that, but she goes to Los Angeles for a few weeks and she meets Richard's family.

Speaker 2: 11:39

After all this she decides, okay, I probably need to like do work on my education, and the next semester she's back at Yale. And I get it. Though like your whole future is ahead of you, but at the same time you want to be grown and have it all right now. Like it's a hard place to be in life and she's just trying to like navigate through that. But these two aren't in the same place in life, though. Like she's just starting her college career he's graduated and started graduate school. She's thinking about Marin, she's thinking about a house. She's lived kind of a very privileged life and she hasn't really got to sew her oats yet. So she's not really there, she's not on the same page as Richard.

Speaker 1: 12:19

Hello, my name is DJ and I'm the host of the Mythical True Crime podcast Growing me and the Darkcast network of indie podcast creators, as we delve into the mysterious and the macabre, exploring captivating tales of true crime legends and unsolved mysteries from the realms of mythology and reality. Uncover the dark, true tales of modern legends with our spoken narratives that blend history, crime and the supernatural. Just starting season three, you could listen to the newest episodes every other week, as well as all my backlog episodes on anywhere you can listen to your podcasts.

Speaker 2: 13:08

So Bonnie is back at Yale. They're trying like the long distance thing you have to remember, like there's not cell phones and emails so they're sending letters and they're having to call like landlines so they can't text or anything like that. So it's difficult. And the garlands no longer are hiding their like distaste for Richard and they're kind of in her ear encouraging her to break it off with him. Pretty often In the meantime Richard is like writing letters of how much he misses her, these love letters, how much he wants to marry her. And Bonnie is living it up in college. Like I said, this girl loves music. She's been starting to take voice lessons, she joins the choir, she practices with the Glee Club several nights a week and if that's not enough, she's also tacked on some extra classes to try to get back on track to graduate and she begins to see other guys. But of course this isn't something that she like talks to Richard about because he's like still pining for her. So in May of 77, bonnie heads to Europe to tour with the Yale Glee Club and yes, that is really a thing. And she even had some solos, which is great for her. Never seen any advertising for Glee Club, or maybe haven't paid attention or maybe this is kind of like died out, but it was a big thing for her.

Speaker 2: 14:35

Richard is writing her letters all summer long. But Bonnie just isn't feeling Richard anymore. She tells her friends that she wants to break it off with him but she's concerned about how he will take it and, like we said, she's never really had a serious relationship. So this is the first like serious breakup that she's had. So I can understand, being apprehensive. And she's also now seeing one of the guys in the Glee Club and she's pretty into him. So she decides, instead of writing the lies to Richard all summer, that she just doesn't write him. So basically like ghosts him old school fashion, I guess right Just does, cuts off contact. She doesn't want to write a dear John letter, so she just kind of goes to, which I'm sure has to be like screwing with his head, like anyone who's been ghosted know, like that feeling, and you know it did.

Speaker 2: 15:31

He would later say that he was ashamed of people to think that she may not love him anymore and he let his mind go wild with things like maybe she did like a lope in Europe but he never see her again, which I think ashamed is kind of an odd way to think about it. You know, I'm sure he was probably wondering if she was seeing someone. I don't know in my head if I would go to the extreme of her getting married, but Richard's a little obsessed with her right. He spent his summer writing to her, even though she's not responding. He's super depressed because he didn't write him back, said he checked the mail daily, sometimes twice a day, just in case he like missed the mail run looking for a letter from her, any letter.

Speaker 2: 16:17

Then July 1st he finally receives a letter from Bonnie. But it's not at all what he was hoping for. She told him she was seeing someone else and was very confused at the time and just needed time to think, which I think was like the best way that she could try and let him down easy. But it didn't go down easy for Richard. This devastated him. He spent hours crying and just rereading the letter. He let his imagination just run wild. He was sure she had been unfaithful and said, quote if I found out Bonnie has slept with another man, I will cut off her genitals and cut off her breasts, but not kill her. End quote, which that is not love. So someone says that that's a red flag. Just FYI, that is an obsession and it's a little weird, but also understanding the heat of the moment. Sometimes we think things like that. We don't mean out of anger or frustration, but I don't know. I kind of think he actually meant that which is concerning so Bonnie's home now and Richard books a flight to New York, he doesn't call first to see like if this is okay, he just knows that he has to see Bonnie.

Speaker 2: 17:33

So once he goes to New York he's saying to a friend and he calls Bonnie but she's not home. Jane answers and tells him Bonnie is at home right now. She's out boating with her dad and her new boyfriend that she brought home. But you know, we know that like the mom didn't like him and she kind of despised him, so I'm sure for her like that felt good to like get to say to him, but like it didn't deter him in any way, he hangs out around New York because he's determined to speak to Bonnie face to face and he finally gets that chance July 6th he and Bonnie have their talk. She tells him she still loves him but she's going to see other men and she's gonna sleep with other men. She still wants him in her life, but like he's just gonna have to be okay with that.

Speaker 2: 18:24

You know, and this is like a three-year thing that's happened right. So they've had this like long distance friends with benefit situationship and I don't want to blame the victim and the situation at all, but I feel like she kind of provided some false hope here, which I know is probably hard to just be like, and when he's face to face with you it can be hard with confrontation, to just be like no, we're done. But I think he took that little bit of hope and ran with him and I think she probably did love him and still kind of wanted to know what was out there. You know she's young and it's the 70, so it's not like the setup was out of the question. Plus, I think it was hard to see him and just you know, like I cut it off completely, it's really hard. I mean they weren't ending on bad terms, they hadn't been fighting. She was just young and wanted to explore her options.

Speaker 2: 19:17

But for Richard, this leaves him kind of in limbo. He's confused. He's madly in love with this woman. Well, he says he is. I think he's a little more obsessed, evacuated with her and he obviously doesn't want to share her and he's already said what he would do if he found out she was unfaithful. So she invites him to her parents' house this day of the night Jim share her parents were super excited about. But you know, sometimes you have to bite your tongue and let them make the mistakes and I don't know if this is one of those times. But you know he says they get back to her house and they go into her room and they have sex the next day. Richard is bringing all this up again because he's just not prepared emotionally to handle the arrangement that Bonnie is asking for. But Bonnie is still adamant that she's gonna sleep with other men, see other men, and he's either gonna have to get on board with that or he's gonna have to jump ship. He says the rest of the day they just kind of hang out.

Speaker 2: 20:16

They go up to her room. She got naked. She went to bed. He decided to stay up and read, but he just couldn't get the thought of Bonnie sleeping with other men out of his head.

Speaker 3: 20:30

Hey everyone, it's me, stephanie, the hostess of the Macabre Family Podcast. Join me and my whole Macabre Family every week as we tell you all the tales of spooky, kooky, creepy, freaky Harry. You name it, we got it at the Macabre Family Podcast. Join us every week on all listening platforms. Stay spooky.

Speaker 2: 20:55

Which I'm sure is like for someone that you really care about and you want like this future with. It has to be hard to not visualize that. He says he just kind of sat there watching her sleep and realized like if he couldn't have her to himself, then he didn't think anyone should have her and he knew then what he had to do he had to kill her and then himself. So we're talking murder, suicide. It feels very Romeo and Juliet to me. He begins trying to figure out like how to kill her. At first he thinks he's gonna strangle her with pantyhose, but then he's worried that might make too much noise and so he goes downstairs. He finds a hammer in the kitchen closet. He wraps it up in a dish towel and lays it outside her bedroom door to go in and check to see if he's still asleep. When he confirms that she is still asleep, he grabs the hammer and he forcefully hits Bonnie in the head. He hits her again and he says the second blow to the head crushed her skull. He continues to hit her and midst that at one time the hammer got stuck in her head and he had to like wiggle it to pull it out. He says it was covered in blood, but she was making noises. He put the hammer down and tried to strangle her to keep her quiet, but he was just too weak. He'd put too much energy into beating her to death with a hammer and he was sure that her parents heard the commotion. So he ran downstairs, grabbed the keys to one of their cars and fled. And of course this is like two o'clock in the morning. Of course this is supposed to be a murder suicide. He has not completed his task, he says.

Speaker 2: 22:41

After this, though, he drove around aimlessly for hours. At one point he thought of like driving off a mountain or running into a tree or driving off a bridge, but he just couldn't bring himself to kill himself. At about 6.30 that morning the car ran out of gas in front of St Mary's Catholic Church. He knocks on the church rectory door until Father Paul tartigalea I'm not positive, that's how you say it, but that's how it looks Answers the door, and of course I can even begin to imagine what is going through his head when he saw Richard, because, let's remember, richard has just flown the scene, he's not cleaned himself up, so he has to have blood covered clothing. Probably has some brain matter, but he left in just his pants. He doesn't have a shirt on, he has no shoes. Just imagine this person knocking on a door and answering it. It has to feel like an eerie scene out of a horror movie, and I understand that this is a Catholic Church. I would have had to run for the phone because I'd be afraid, like I am, the next victim of whatever crime this person has committed.

Speaker 2: 24:00

But he doesn't do that though. He lets him talk and he talks to him and Richard confesses to him what happened. But the priest isn't positive if Richard is hallucinating or on drugs or something else, you know. After he tells him he killed his girlfriend because she wanted to date other men and sleep with him. But you see, this dude is covered in blood. So it seems fair to assume he's probably legit. But Father Paul does ask if the police came. And he said not that he knows of that. You know he ran. So he has no idea.

Speaker 2: 24:41

And so they call the Koksaki police to tell them what happened. They arrive and they speak with Richard and you know they tell him kind of what they. He tells them, like, what happened, right, what he knows, everything like that, and they now have to figure out what to do, so they call the Scarsdale Police Department to have them go check this out, and this town is like just over a hundred miles away from Scarsdale. That's when the sixth police arrive at the home of the Garlands, where, you know, our story began. And what makes me really frustrated, though, is they had some inkling of an idea of what state Bonnie would have been in, and they allowed her mother to walk in first and see that, instead of being like hey, can we go check on her, we think something's happened like that. Isn't infuriating that her mother had to see her like that? But anyway, let's talk about what happened with Richard. The Scarsdale Police call the Koksaki Police and tell them what they found. Of course, they arrest Richard and they transport him back to Scarsdale.

Speaker 2: 26:01

Oddly enough, he really pulled on like the heart strings of Father Paul and also sister Ramona Pena Pina, who was an assistant Catholic at Yale. So she read the story in the newspaper, felt some sort of compassion for Richard and organized a campaign of sorts to help Richard. This included her friends, our former classmates, yale alumni and, like this group, band together to hire Richard an attorney, and they end up hiring a Harvard Law graduate Jack Lyman. He was the beast in the courtroom, from what I could gather, and he had never lost homicide case as a defense attorney. But my confusion comes from all of this compassion for a very senseless murder and how this had to feel like a second slap in the face for the Garland family because you know, and especially for Paul, because he was a yellow alumni, he was a Harvard law alumni, he's a Catholic, like everything that built him kind of is like against him and rallying behind the murder of his daughter. So I feel for him like on so many levels, but about to add more fuel to the fire. So hold on. So they're paying for this attorney, right, but of course his family can't make bail for him. So Sister Ramona gets a group together. They send letters asking for help and bail money.

Speaker 2: 27:39

And let me just read you a line from this quote while we are left only to mourn Bonnie's tragic death, it is important that, having lost one life, we do what we can to salvage another. End quote. I mean, like what, since she's dead, we should save the guy's life who killed her. I mean what happens when he falls in love or gets infatuated with the next girl and she dumps him. This is not normal, and let's not forget that his family is in Los Angeles. He has to stay in New York. If he makes bail, he has to stay in New York, and that doesn't super crossed anybody's mind. But yeah, he will have to be in New York and I guess his entourage has some sort of plan.

Speaker 2: 28:27

Because he was released with $50,000 bail and the judge received a letter from Brother Thomas Gavin, the director for the Christian Brothers Community in Albany. He says in the letter that if Richard is released he can stay at the academy and they will take care of him. And this is like a private boy's school that's from like fifth grade to 12th grade. And can you imagine paying like this enormous fee right for a private school for your son to find out that they are housing a murderer there for free? Like I would pull myself in so quick and like this is just crazy. Like we do background checks to try to keep our kids safe but you are okay with a confessed killer hanging out with a bunch of minors. That doesn't seem safe or smart or logical. But that's not all though. Okay.

Speaker 2: 29:22

So, if you remember, richard was in graduate school in Texas and since he has to be in New York. He obviously can't do that, but the Christian Brothers Community persuades the University of Albany to let him enroll there under the alias of Richard James. So, yeah, you mean you're waiting trial. Let's work on that degree before you get into prison. You know not only that he's on a rugby team, but word got out about that and complaints were made to the Westchester County DA about all of this freedom. He has right, because the University was forced to drop him from enrollment.

Speaker 2: 29:59

And let me read you this line from one of the staff at the Christian Brothers Community, quote we thought of Richard as a good, honest person. There was no reason to be afraid of him. In quote what? There was no free. He beat a woman to death with a hammer, a woman he claimed to have loved. Okay, obviously this is insane. So there's no surprise when this turns into a whole media circus, because Paul Garland is writing letters to Yale, he's writing letters to the New York Archdiocese. He's mad and, honestly, rightfully so. So everywhere he turns, people appear to be on Richard's side. And Richard hasn't even gone to trial yet.

Speaker 2: 30:46

But when the trial does start, his attorney goes with this temporary insanity plea. He has two psychiatrists testify that Richard was in such a bad mental state he didn't know what he was doing. But you know, we know that he had thought before, during and after. This is, in my opinion, premeditated first degree murder, you know. But the DA has these two psychiatrists who are saying just the opposite. So once the jury is done deliberating, they say they don't find him guilty of second degree murder, but on the count of manslaughter they find him guilty and the sentence for that is one year to 25 years max. He ends up serving 17 years in prison and he was released on January 12th of 1995.

Speaker 2: 31:42

So get this. After all that the Catholic Church did for him. Once he got in prison he let everyone know that he was now an atheist and after he was released he got a job in New Mexico running a mental health foundation. Mental health foundation Murderer, yes.

Speaker 2: 32:02

Well, the Garland sued him in the 80s for a wrongful death suit and honestly, I guess because they were angry and because they could, because part of them had to know like they'd never get anything out of it, right, he was in prison and I would have to assume it maybe felt like some type of justice if they won and they did end up winning and they were awarded $40,000 in damages, but, like I said, I'm sure like none of that was ever seen. Well, this is just crazy and y'all's opinion. Do you think that there was justice for the Garland family? Do you feel like he, richard, deserved the kind of support he got from the people around him, most of whom were strangers to him? Do you feel like this was justice for Bonnie? Let us know what you think. We always recommend more bubbly and less.

Speaker 2: 33:05

OJ Cheers. If you'd like to see pictures from today's episode, you can find us at murdermamosas on Instagram. You can also find us at murdermamosas on TikTok, twitter, and if you have a case you would like us to do, you can send that to murdermamosas at ginocom and, lastly, we are on Facebook at Murder and Mamosas podcast, where you can interact with us there. We love any type of feedback you can give us, so please write your views on Spotify, itunes or wherever you listen to your podcast.